Pls Help Test Z9X with Oppo 203

It hasn't been that long but I assume they never got back to you?,

 

Nope, nothing

 

Since you have a LG C9, can you do a test by playing the same movie using C9's internal player to cross check with your z9x and oppo?
I just bought a z9x pro and kind of feel that C9's internal player is doing a better image than z9x pro when playing a DV movie.

 

If you can help me figure out how I am happy to test. I have a full rip and playing its M2TS file played in HDR10. I used MakeMKV to turn it into an MKV and that also played in HDR10. I then took that MKV and made it a TS file and it wouldn't play at all via PLEX app on the TV so I was out of ideas at that point.

Anything native HDR10 does blow away the Z9X if played via C9 but with that you loose Losseless audio. Thus I just stick with my Oppo 203 which is much more closes to the native C9 picture, still not 100% but close. Z9X is noticeably way behind both and only used for files that can't be played on Oppo.

 

At least one mystery has been solved for overall DV content being darker on Zidoo, Shield, and Roku Ultra in comparison to C9 internal apps.

Apparently, the C9 is one of the first tvs to use something called DV CMv4.0 which makes for brighter DV, while all other devices mention above use CMv2.9 (except Shield have that machines has its own issues). I am trying some content streamed directly to C9 in TS format and DV is just out of this world.

See vid:
Video doesn't really do it justice on a computer/sdr but in person the difference is in your face - it even trumps the Oppo PQ. Zidoo is way behind in comparison.
Per the comment above, it seems the Z9X Pro is also not using CMv4.0, which is a shame.

Note, not a lot of the content out there is graded with CMv4.0 either but even 2.9 grades will look better on a 4.0 supported device like the C9 because CMv4.0 will upconvert the 2.9 content.

 

I'm not sure why you equate brightness with improvement. DV is not supposed to be bright. HDR in itself is not supposed to be bright - it's an expansion of dynamic range not luminosity (with allowance for specular highlights).

CMv2.9 and CMv4 are backwards and forwards compatible, with CMv4 giving the colourist more creative options and better control over the gamma curve, but a CMv4 device can still only use the CMv2.9 data for CMv2.9 content and CMv4 content still has the CMv2.9 data in there for a CMv2.9 device.

 

Let me clarify, I certainly do not equate brightness to improvement but with what I have seen, picture is brighter, more colorful, vibrant, and more detail in a much more pure form. It is certainly more dynamic but instead of listing all that, I find it easier to just say brighter and better. Or picture is dull on Z9X instead of saying its darker, less colorful, less dynamic etc. I am certainly not sitting here turning up brightness to max to enjoy my tv lol it is in fact at default 50 if you can believe me

You most likely know more about CMvs than me at this point, I just learned about it. But can easily say that is most likely the reason why most DV content on C9 internal apps is better looking than Zidoo, Oppo, Shield as It can upconvert the 2.9 content while other devices cannot.

 

You can't "upconvert" CMv2.9 to CMv4 - goodness knows what the the LG's internal player is doing, but if the content is v2.9, the metadata is the metadata.

I'd trust a UHD BluRay player over in internal app from a TV to produce the content as intended any day of the week, but at the end of the day, as I always say, if it looks good to you then it is good. No-one can tell you what looks/sounds good and what doesn't to you because we all perceive these things differently.

But yeah, it might be worth reading up on Dolby Vision Content Mapping - it's quite interesting.

 

Well Mark, I cant really produce any numbers here other than what my eyes see (highly subjective) so I think all further discussion on the topic would be wastage of everyone's time But I would think a device supporting 4.0 (allows room for better metadata) and playing 4.0 content would be better than a 2.9 device/content, especially if you remove any other devices in the chain and play directly on the source (a C9 in this case).

My closing statement hehe...

 

Yes, agreed, a CMv4 device playing CMv4 content is going to be (marginally) better than a CMv2.9 (or a CMv4.0) device playing the same content mastered to CMv2.9.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder (but at the mercy of the marketing department).

 

I saw a spreadsheet given by Reset_9999 on some other post say you need to use dovi_tool to make m2ts/ts file that can be played by C9. I think I'll give it a try. C9 related screen shots of that spreadsheet as follows:

I think we all agree that preference is subjective. For me, I just try to figure out if the same movie is really showing difference on the same tv using same settings when played by different players. For now, I kind of feel it's different between c9 and z9x pro. If someone can cross check between 3 different types of players(eg. c9, z9x, oppo), I think the results can mean something.

 

Let me know how this goes for you... I will dable with it too but short on time nowadays and messing with new tools.
Though I think this is the way its gonna go, with option one we loose FEL so it wont be a true test, and with option 2, it won't work as some don't. Only saying this, because I have tried muxing and remuxing this movie with MakeMKV, MKVToolNix etc and result is it either doesnt play or plays only in HDR10 everytime. But if we can get it working with these other tools mention, that'd be a win!

EDIT: I do see the internal player might work if no PGS subs are selected and first track is lossy, I can easily try that tonight!

 

I don't understand all this. How can DV be brighter on the C9 at the same nits? The video that was linked shows both at 1000 nits so what is driving the brightness difference? Is it just driving brighter maxfall?

@Markswift2003 , do you believe that the Zidoo using CM 2.9 (idk what this even is) is causing a PQ difference? This is literally the first time I've ever heard of this.I can barely find any topics about this online :-(. It seems like this doesn't explain it since you're saying there isn't much content that actually utilizes CMv4.0?

I would be curious to know which is more "accurate." The c9 internal app or the zidoo. I'm also curious what is driving the perceived extra brightness on the C9.

 

I am fairly new to this too. @Markswift2003 is def. more well versed into this stuff.

The way I think of it is CMv2.9 is USB 2.0 and CMv4.0 is USB 3.0 which is capable of faster data transfer. They are both backwards and forward compatible but USB 2.0 can never be as fast as USB 3.0. Now, is 4.0 always going to be better than 2.9 and in spades? No, because for one, not all Studios master all of their content to 4.0 standards and even if they do the metadata could essentially be identical because just because there's more headroom, they may not choose to use it.

Two, and this is the bigger issue, even if the source material has the so called better metadata of 4.0 tools, its rarely delivered in a 4.0 container. So sources like Streams and even UHDs could still be using plain old 2.9 method of delivery and just ignore the good stuff that 4.0 allowed for and exists but never makes it to the consumers. Sorta like filling a movie with 4K cameras only to down convert to 2K on UHD.

 

I'm still unsure about all this. Is the video you linked showing content mastered with cmv4.0? Or is it showing cmv2.9 content played on a player with 2.9 and a player with 4.0.

 

This also doesn't explain PQ differences in HDR10, since the Cm version is only for DV. Cool stuff though. I was totally unaware of the CM version until now. Ya learn something new every day here.

 

Not sure where you are seeing HDR10. The vid I linked has 4 vids, all DV, the left two are in CMV4.0 but at 1000 and 10,000 nits and the right side is 2.9 at 1000 and 10,000 nits.

 

No i mean I thought you said that the c9 looks better with hdr10 as well. I was just saying that the cm version wouldn't explain that I'd think.

 

I may have used HDR term loosely instead of DV... that vid and all of this discussion is around DV.

 

Got it. That makes more sense. Sorry if I asked you this but which DV picture mode are you using on your C9? I assume you made sure settings were identical between the zidoo input and the tv app mode, right? Just covering the basics ha.