Zidoo Z1000 Pro – My High Definition Audio Experience (so far)

Discussion in 'HDD Media player(RTD 1619DR)' started by rozel, Feb 22, 2021.

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  1. rozel

    rozel Active Member

    I have been very fortunate to have known @Nice Monkey since I got my A11 Egreat Media Player a few years ago. His knowledge regarding setting up hard drives and in particular his awesome knowledge on Audio is really second to none. I remember him singing the virtues of his newest purchase: –

    SABRE ESS ES9038PRO based DIY DAC
    This is a solid DAC design around the SABRE ESS ES9038PRO chip using quality components with over-sized dual linear PSU's for analogue and digital sections respectively. It is including a front display – the HW-build is high quality both outside and inside.

    His write-up and use of it with the Egreat is quite excellent and I’m sure I was not the only one inspired after reading it to venture into the world of DSD playback. As we shouldn’t cross-post however, anyone wanting the link to this, please PM me.

    But funds were tight so I decided to explore DSD using my then new Yamaha Receiver using its native DAC, another Sabre DAC, thinking it won’t be too bad in comparison. My music files are stored on a rather old Readynas NAS but I was able to install “Minim-Server” on it which, when used for the input, has been quite capable of giving me decent sounds. I didn’t need to use the Egreat, as my Android Tablet with the Yamaha app works very well. However I wasn’t blown away and I’m still not. But it didn’t stop me reading about External USB DACs.

    So imagine my surprise when he offered the very same DAC up for sale! Yes I bought it and have been playing with it over the past few days. Blown away? – absolutely yes! Questions? – yes, see below

    I am a complete newbie to USB DACS but I’ve read much about them (mainly when PC’s or phones/tablets are used) although not understanding a lot. But with @Nice Monkey ‘s help, I have set it up as follows: -

    Zidoo ----> to DAC via USB ----> Receiver via RCA (DAC has XLR outs but Receiver does not support XLR input).

    It was quite complicated getting it to work but that was because I’m new. First thing was to set the Zidoo’s USB switch to “on” and select the way DSD is to be sent to the DAC – I chose (after speaking with Nice Monkey) DoP (DSD over PCM) and once I turned up the Zidoo’s volume control (no need when playing back via hdmi) I got wonderful sounds indeed. I spent 4 hours playing back a whole array of DSD files but before I say what I found let me detail the Specs of the Zidoo and my External USB DAC as far as DSD playback is concerned: -

    Zidoo 1000 Pro: -

    HD-Audio multichannel passthrough/bitstream and decoding. Dolby ATMOS, True-HD, Digital AC3 etc. DTS:X, HD-MA, DTS etc. SACD ISO, DFF, DSF, APE, FLAC, WAV, DTS, MP3, AAC, M4A, OGG, WMA, AIF, M4R, MP2, AMR and CUE track. Up to DSD256/PCM 192kHz.
    Audio sampling rate output up to 192Khz. CD 44.1Khz raw output at 44.1Khz. Up to DSD256/PCM 192kHz


    USB DAC: -

    PCM:
    44.1 KHz, 48 KHz, 88.2 KHz, 96 KHz, 176.4 KHz, 192 KHz (coaxial / optical input),
    USB input support 352.8 KHz, 384 KHz
    DSD:
    USB INPUT support DSD native DSD64, DSD128, DSD256, DSD512 (Amanero USB module, which the DAC came with)


    Experience: -

    The music, ranging from Classical, POP and through to Heavy Rock is the best I’ve heard on my setup period. A very noticeable improvement over playing via my Receiver directly. The Treble and Mid-Range is beutiful, sweet and utterly smooth, Bass was adequately punchy and Spacial awareness is the very best I've heard.

    On the DAC’s display DoP – DSD64 playback shows 2.8 MHz and DSD128 shows 5.6MHz proving I think that despite what the Zidoo shows, the correct signals are reaching the DAC. However DSD256 shows 5.6MHZ as well, so something wrong here.

    Native DSD seems screwed from the Zidoo and I don’t know why.

    This thread: - http://forum.zidoo.tv/index.php?threads/confirmed-aggregated-problems-fw-v6-1-05-no-feature-requests.84836/ it informs us that: -

    3a. For DSD => PCM conversion output is still 16-bit instead of 24-bit.
    Not being part of the problem reported it is excluded but considered a related flaw.
    DSD 64 outputs as 176/16 bit
    DSD 128 outputs as 88/16 bit
    DSD 256 outputs at 44/16 bit

    I’m not sure if this relates to HDMI playback but the Zidoo, when USB playback is set to Native DSD, both the Zidoo and my DAC’s display show the above.

    It seems that the UHD3000 suffers in the same way – see here: - http://forum.zidoo.tv/index.php?threads/practical-experiences-using-the-uhd3000.86061/

    I won’t go into the differences between DoP and Native DSD playback as first; I am not qualified and knowledgeable enough and second; Nice Monkey says they are both Protocols and will sound identical. I am not sure because whilst both are dealing with digital source files one decodes and recodes and the other doesn’t, before sending the analogue signal to the Receiver. This then suggests (to me) they will sound different. The Zidoo’s specs don’t actually say it supports Native DSD but in this thread: http://forum.zidoo.tv/index.php?threads/audio-challenges-z1000-pro-fw-6-1-05.85806/ Nice says “DoP typically is supported more widely than Native DSD, but both work with my unit”. Ok so am bound to ask why am I not getting correct Native DSD? Are we saying that it works but at the moment it’s got a fault which will be fixed or something else? I certainly want to know as very confused

    Playing back a number of albums – Abbey Road and DSOTM for example - “Gapless Playback” was heard. I was playing back through MP 6 - I left it playing through the track list. Brilliant! But then I read there’s a switch or something in settings, which I cannot find. So is this switch just available for the UHD3000? Is there a difference between the UHD3000 and the Z1000 Pro as far as GP is concerned?

    Then just after extensive auditioning, I came across another bundle of settings within MP 6. What do these do? Do they overwrite those within Zidoo’s own settings or what? Totally confused about them.

    Finally on to Control. I have noticed with the Zidoo Control app on my tablet, that a couple of screens open but immediately close – the Zidoo’s Settings screen is one. Is this a known fault? I have bought the USB Audio Player Pro (UAPP) app and I’m hoping to get it working but setting it up is not clear. The DAC does not have Wifi, Bluetooth or Ethernet, so the only way to connect it to my Tablet would be via USB and remove the Zidoo from the chain completely, leaving control to the app. I’m sure this is possible using an “OTG” (On The Go) cable but my listening position is around 4 meters from the DAC! So going to have to experiment.

    But If all I’m going to get is DSD64 and DSD128 using the DAC and the Zidoo, then I will take it, for the sublime sounds I’m now hearing – it’s been a long journey but well worth the wait – with massive thanks to @ Nice Monkey



    OK my List of Questions: -

    1. Is DSD Playback affected by storing the files on a NAS?

    2. Would I gain any benefit if I bought a pair of XLR to RCA Adapters?

    3. What exactly can the Zidoo do with DSD? Is there a fault with playback which can be fixed with a firmware update and is one planned?

    4. I’m advised that the DAC’s display is accurate – what it displays is what is being received – this suggests that the Zidoo Z1000 Pro is sending the correct signal but displaying it incorrectly. I’m specifically talking about USB playback. Is this correct? If so are Zidoo going to do something about it?

    5. Is there an audible difference between Dop (DSD over PCM) and Native DSD?

    6. I am not getting Native DSD as I should as confirmed by my DAC – is this something to do with my setup or a Zidoo fault? Nice suggests it should work.

    7. Gapless Playback – is there a setting on the Z1000 Pro which I’m missing and/or am I receiving GP correctly?

    8. How will future Firmware Updates go with the Z1000 Pro – as far as Audio is concerned? - will they follow those of the UHD3000 or not? And I’m talking future enhancements rather than the fixing of present faults.

    9. Control – Has anyone got experience with UAPP? – if so if I attach an OTG cable to a lengthy USB to USB cable (similar to a printer cable) then connect this between my Tablet and DAC, will it work? If not is there another way?

    Many thanks - hopefully will receive comments and answers
     
  2. Nice Monkey

    Nice Monkey Well-Known Member Beta test group

    OH yes. Settings within MP6 and Audio settings within Quick Setup do overlap. You can use either to change them. A bit confusing indeed.

    Up to others to confirm or deny. ;)
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2021
  3. CGI

    CGI Member

    Screenshot_20210222-190705.png Screenshot_20210222-190754.png

    Hi,
    completely agree with Nice Monkey answers.
    Addition:

    6. I am not getting Native DSD as I should as confirmed by my DAC – is this something to do with my setup or a Zidoo fault? Nice suggests it should work.
    It can work if implemented on both ends in a compatible way. DoP is far more universal.


    Also agree, but if implemented on both sides, it works native - see screen shots, pls., even in MP6
    Quite another question that not all ext. DACs are recognized by zidoo (imho it is not the zidoo, but the Android).
    In my case - have 2 ext. DACs - one recognized and playing everything, the other not recognized, no sound :(
    BUT the both are detected and playable via UAPP and HiBy players, which bypass (I think) Android and stream directly to USB. (do not use them both as they fight for the USB :) )
    One of my DACs has Bluetooth - tried it, not good for HiFi music - limitation to 96 K and has issues streaming from z1000 Pro to it, even 50 cm away :)

    Configuration - z1000Pro->ext. DAC ->RCA Amp Denon


    Screenshot_20210222-190705.png

    Screenshot_20210222-190754.png
     
  4. rozel

    rozel Active Member

    Thanks @Nice Monkey and @CGI, very much appreciated.

    Regarding "implementing on both sides" do you mean when the settings are set to Native DSD in BOTH the Zidoo and MP 6, it will work? I haven't tried this as yet.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2021
  5. CGI

    CGI Member

    No, I mean that the ext. DAC has also to support native DSD, not only DoP (which really is more universal) but in fact there should be no Audio quality difference b/n DSD native and DoP as Nice Monkey stated. Just confirming it is possible :)

    BTW - does anybody knows what is the internal DAC of z1000pro ?
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2021
  6. rozel

    rozel Active Member

    Thanks @CGI - it's bugging me that whilst it seemingly works my Dac's display isn't correct meaning the Zidoo is at fault, sending incorrect signals. So I am bound to ask does the Z1000 Pro support Native DSD or not?

    Both you and @Nice Monkey are saying it should - you with you saying it does and Nice said it did when he had the DAC before selling it to me.
     
  7. Nice Monkey

    Nice Monkey Well-Known Member Beta test group

    Not really as Zidoo MP6 did not support USB DAC when I used it. I used UAPP mostly and with DoP. I don't care about Native DSD at all.
     
  8. CGI

    CGI Member

    Hi,
    some more details to be quite clear.
    have 2 ext DACs playing with - lets call them DAC1 and DAC2
    DAC1 is recognized by z1000pro and plays everything I throw at it, DAC2 - not recognized, plays nothing

    1. zidoo z1000 pro supports native DSD even in MP6 - proof -with DAC1:

    Screenshot_20210223-201332.png Screenshot_20210223-200927.png

    and the DAC1 shows correct info - DSD64 and DSD128 respectively. This is when DSD output through USB is set to native.

    2. When set to DoP: Screenshot_20210223-201753.png Screenshot_20210223-201846.png

    z1000 pro shows 176.4 and 352.8 KHz respectively, as it encapsulates DSD in PCM -DoP, which is normal *see 3.
    the DAC1 still recognizes it is DSD encapsulated, "de-capsulates" it and shows correct info - DSD64 and DSD 128
    3. DSD native vs DoP is a rather "theological" topic; explanation and considerations can be found here :
    https://dsd-guide.com/dop-open-standard#.YDUsYEBuLlw
    bottom line
    - DoP uses a little more processing power both at source and destinatio - neglectable
    - DoP uses bigger bandwidth - not a problem with USB streaming, may be a problem with WiFi streaming
    - DoP is more universal
    - There is no audio difference in both

    so I would stick to DSD Native, when the DAC supports it

    PS - using UAPP and/or HiBy both DACS are recognized and play everything - @zidoo
    PS1 - DSD via HDMI - still on the wish list - for now converted to PCM - @zidoo
    PS2 - sorry for the long post :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2021
  9. rozel

    rozel Active Member

    Hi @CGI First let me apologise for not even acknowledging your above, extremely helpful and informative post. I have been using the information to compare with my own playback but as you may have read in another Thread, I have had issues Scanning my music held on my Music NAS. I think I may have the hang of it now and after restructuring the folders, I am 77% into the latest scan and hope to complete it later today or by the latest tomorrow. In the meantime I've been messing about with UAPP using my Android Tablet and making some progress.

    So I hope to update here on progress by Monday. Thanks once more, very much appreciated.
     
  10. CGI

    CGI Member

    Hi - no need to apologize :) - everybody has occupation and tasks to do :) and this forum is for sharing supposingly useful information, not acknowledgment.
    - I do not use a NAS - my "NAS" is z1000pro as my audio equipment is in the "man's cave" on different floor from my main router. To have a proper connection to a NAS you need hard wire - out of question, very, very low WAF, been forbidden to drill holes in the walls :)
    - All my music is on the local to z1000pro disks - one internal and one ext. 2.5" SATA
    - I organize my music in the following way - Audio1, Audio2...… with subfolders Pop, Rock, Jazz etc.
    - when I scrape music, I do it one subfolder at a time -it never took me more than a 30 min to scrape a subfolder with 50G content and 2K files in it.
     
  11. OlivierQC

    OlivierQC Well-Known Member Beta test group

    Hello all,

    I have a newbie question,

    I am not an audiophile but I would like to try to use the 2 DACs of my Pioneer Elite even if they look old and not of good quality (2x Sabre 9022pro) and I was wondering if I should use 2 RCA cables to connect my multimedia box to the CD input of my receiver to enjoy the 2 DACs of the Pioneer (of course I will have to check in the receiver manual).

    But I wanted to know if my connection made sense to make both DACs work ?

    Thank you
     
  12. Nice Monkey

    Nice Monkey Well-Known Member Beta test group

    DAC stands for Digital to Analog Conversion. Anything connected digital to your AMP (SPDIF/HDMI) will use the DAC's of that AMP. Anything connected Analog (RCA) will use the DAC of the source connected to that analog port instead.
     
  13. OlivierQC

    OlivierQC Well-Known Member Beta test group

    Hello Nice Monkey,

    Okay, I have a toslink that I can plug into the toslink audio input of the receiver.

    I'll look on the pioneer manual which audio mode to use to enjoy the DACs in the best conditions.


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  14. Nice Monkey

    Nice Monkey Well-Known Member Beta test group

    Toslink is Optical S/PDIF so will use the DAC of your AMP for sure. Said the same above.
     
  15. rozel

    rozel Active Member

    Hi - much later than anticipated but I now would like to return to my original questions and as well as making comments, I'd like to expand on a few of them for more information please. I'm so grateful to @Nice Monkey and @CGI who have added to my learning enormously. Forgive me if I'm seen to be labouring one or two matters but I say "if you don't ask, you don't get" - well that's what my mum used to say :)

    @Nice Monkey has answered my questions in Blue, below and my responses are either in Green if they have been resolved or RED if I need further clarification or comment on, in which case keep reading after the list ends.

    1. Is DSD Playback affected by storing the files on a NAS?
    As long it is fast enough it will be good. Music is hardly ever a problem.
    This is great news although I will say that my Receiver's DAC (which we are not talking about here) has different rules on what it will support - a. over ethernet and b. over HDMI
    2. Would I gain any benefit if I bought a pair of XLR to RCA Adapters?
    No. XLR is better only using (very) long cables like on a stage.
    Excellent - I thought this was the case but I never knew about the length of cables - my son is a guitarist and has meteres and meteres of XLR cables, so now I know why he doesn't use RCA cables!
    3. What exactly can the Zidoo do with DSD? Is there a fault with playback which can be fixed with a firmware update and is one planned?
    No current faults but a Wishlist for features yes: MCH DSD via DSD => PCM, DSD via HDMI for 2CH and MCH.
    Not sure about this - see below
    4. I’m advised that the DAC’s display is accurate – what it displays is what is being received – this suggests that the Zidoo Z1000 Pro is sending the correct signal but displaying it incorrectly. I’m specifically talking about USB playback. Is this correct? If so are Zidoo going to do something about it?
    To be fixed
    Please see below
    5. Is there an audible difference between Dop (DSD over PCM) and Native DSD?
    No
    Yes agreed - I've done extensive research now but that said I am persuing the reason I'm seemingly not getting "Native DSD" - see below

    6. I am not getting Native DSD as I should as confirmed by my DAC – is this something to do with my setup or a Zidoo fault? Nice suggests it should work.
    It can work if implemented on both ends in a compatible way. DoP is far more universal.
    Well I an not getting Native DSD no matter how I try either via my Zidoo or via UAPP via my Android Tablet - see below
    7. Gapless Playback – is there a setting on the Z1000 Pro which I’m missing and/or am I receiving GP correctly?
    Just confirmed by Mirror it is active always with latest FW
    Brilliant! and it's fab-u-less :D

    8. How will future Firmware Updates go with the Z1000 Pro – as far as Audio is concerned? - will they follow those of the UHD3000 or not? And I’m talking future enhancements rather than the fixing of present faults.
    Mirror indicates some features will be for HiFi models only.
    I can understand that but I had hoped the Zidoo Z1000 Pro would be classed as a HiFi model, so I'm rather disappointed :(

    9. Control – Has anyone got experience with UAPP? – if so if I attach an OTG cable to a lengthy USB to USB cable (similar to a printer cable) then connect this between my Tablet and DAC, will it work? If not is there another way?
    That is the way to do it. No other way.
    Yes it works! See photo below
    I took the plunge to buy a 5 metere printer USB cable from ebay. Then I tried a small OTG cable I have, plugged into the flat end of the cable, but after fiddling around with my tablet and UAPP, I got nowhere. So as a last resort I turned to the small male micro USB to standard female USB adapter I got with my Samsung Phone. It works perfectly :) - I never knew that it was an OTG adapter!

    OK so my outstanding questions are: - 3, 4, 5 and 6


    Thank you again @CGI for your very informative post - what this proves is that the Z1000 Pro is capable of sending Native DSD over USB. This obviously leaves me to ask why my Zidoo seemingly does not? First when trying to play using Native DSD my DAC and MP 6 display the following: -

    DSD64 DAC displays 176 KHz MP 6 displays 176.4 KHZ
    DSD128 DAC displays 88 KHz MP 6 displays 88.2 KHZ
    DSD256 DAC displays 44.1 or 88 KHz MP 6 displays 44.1 or 88 KHz
    DSD512 DAC displays 88 KHz MP 6 displays 88.2 KHZ - however the file doesn't play, it freezes immediately

    Second when trying to play using DoP my DAC and MP 6 display the following: -

    DSD64 DAC displays 2.8 MHz MP 6 displays 176.4 KHZ
    DSD128 DAC displays 5.6 MHz MP 6 displays 352.8 KHZ
    DSD256 DAC displays 5.6 MHz MP 6 displays 352.8 KHZ
    DSD512 DAC displays nothing MP 6 displays nothing - and the file doesn't play, it freezes immediately

    So let's compare with the specs quoted in my first post above, particularly those in red below: -

    Zidoo 1000 Pro: -


    HD-Audio multichannel passthrough/bitstream and decoding. Dolby ATMOS, True-HD, Digital AC3 etc. DTS:X, HD-MA, DTS etc. SACD ISO, DFF, DSF, APE, FLAC, WAV, DTS, MP3, AAC, M4A, OGG, WMA, AIF, M4R, MP2, AMR and CUE track. Up to DSD256/PCM 192kHz.
    Audio sampling rate output up to 192Khz. CD 44.1Khz raw output at 44.1Khz. Up to DSD256/PCM 192kHz

    USB DAC: -

    PCM:
    44.1 KHz, 48 KHz, 88.2 KHz, 96 KHz, 176.4 KHz, 192 KHz (coaxial / optical input),
    USB input support 352.8 KHz, 384 KHz
    DSD:
    USB INPUT support DSD native DSD64, DSD128, DSD256, DSD512 (Amanero USB module, which the DAC came with)

    My Conclusions and Further Questions: -

    A. So we can immediately rule out DSD512 playback - it's simply not supported by the Zidoo - correct?
    B. DSD256 however is supported by both devices but I believe the Zidoo is either not supporting or displaying incorrectly. Because I'm told the DAC's display cannot lie (it reports what is being received) I must conclude that the Zidoo is not sending correctly. I know I'm asking a lot but may I ask what @CGI 's experience is with DSD256 please, if possible?
    C. Exactly what fixes/issues have Zidoo been sent to them? 3a doesn't say whether the fixes are for DSD over HDMI or both - an answer here too would be helpful please?
    D. OK - @Nice Monkey , I won't quote the posts but on more than one occasion you have said my USB DAC supports Native DSD but yet I'm unable to produce this on the very same USB DAC. We know the Zidoo supports it (it may not display it's output correctly) but @CGI proves it does. Yes, yes and yes again (thrice yes) I know it's not a big deal cos Native DSD and DoP sound the same but, as said before, I'm like a dog without a bone - I want to persue this matter to reach a conclusion and a reason why I am unable to replicate @CGI 's results. Can you answer please?
    E. I (and I believe many others) would like to have a table showing what the Z1000 Pro can produce (if fed with the appropriate signal), showing separately DSD64, DSD128 and DSD256 and what each should show in MP6, both for Native DSD and DoP. Is this possible? It should show for MP6: - 1. The sampling Rate 2. Bit Rate and 3. Output / Output Sampling Rate (see @CGI 's photos and the highlighted sections). Again I know I'm asking a lot but the same for HDMI would be awesome too?

    I'll say again that on my system, DSD64 and DSD128 sound brilliant - my wife used to play in a National Orchestra and I always ask her what she thinks given her trained ears. Her opinion so far is as smooth as silk sounds as they should be heard with no shrillness in the upper frequencies and a smooth mid-range. My USB DAC has rekindled my Audiophile interests at last. So I do hope my questions A. to E. and my requests can be answered.

    Once I've sorted all the above, I'll move on to playback via UAPP (USB Audio Player PRO)

    Thanks again



     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Mar 4, 2021
  16. Nice Monkey

    Nice Monkey Well-Known Member Beta test group

    Never worried about DSD256 or DSD512 myself as these albums are very rare. You can get some only at very special sites via downloads at astronomic prices.
     
  17. rozel

    rozel Active Member

    A. So we can immediately rule out DSD512 playback - it's simply not supported by the Zidoo - correct?
    I think the UHD3000 might play them using the DAC inside. Don't have any source to try with.
    I'm not interested in the UHD3000 - this thread is for Z1000 Pro owners - who like me had thought we had bought a HiFi model
    B. DSD256 however is supported by both devices but I believe the Zidoo is either not supporting or displaying incorrectly. Because I'm told the DAC's display cannot lie (it reports what is being received) I must conclude that the Zidoo is not sending correctly. I know I'm asking a lot but may I ask what
    It Is sending correctly and only not displaying correctly
    I don't think this is true - see below
    May I ask what @CGI 's experience is with DSD256 please, if possible?

    C. Exactly what fixes/issues have Zidoo been sent to them? 3a doesn't say whether the fixes are for DSD over HDMI or both - an answer here too would be helpful please?
    I expect B to be fixed
    I need confirmation as to what exactly is planned to be fixed - see below
    D. OK - @Nice Monkey , I won't quote the posts but on more than one occasion you have said my USB DAC supports Native DSD but yet I'm unable to produce this on the very same USB DAC. We know the Zidoo supports it (it may not display it's output correctly) but @CGI proves it does. Yes, yes and yes again (thrice yes) I know it's not a big deal cos Native DSD and DoP sound the same but, as said before, I'm like a dog without a bone - I want to persue this matter to reach a conclusion and a reason why I am unable to replicate @CGI 's results. Can you answer please?
    The DAC you got does not tell/display if DoP or Native is being received just DSD+Rate or PCM+rate
    I am talking about the Zidoo here - I understand exactly what the DAC displays - see below
    E. I (and I believe many others) would like to have a table showing what the Z1000 Pro can produce (if fed with the appropriate signal), showing separately DSD64, DSD128 and DSD256 and what each should show in MP6, both for Native DSD and DoP. Is this possible? It should show for MP6: - 1. The sampling Rate 2. Bit Rate and 3. Output / Output Sampling Rate (see @CGI 's photos and the highlighted sections). Again I know I'm asking a lot but the same for HDMI would be awesome too?
    Most products refer to DSD 1-bit as Native DSD support and don't talk about Native DSD versus DoP via USB being used to achieve that. That may be confusing. For me Native DSD support also means being able to handle 1-bit DSD streams without conversion to PCM. This regardless using DoP or not via USB. Never tried S/PDIF as its inferior.
    I'm absolutely not talking about or interested in S/PDIF (I never mentioned it) but a table would be good right now because clearly the Zidoo has problems and this can be updated as things are fixed - see below

    My responses are in red above but expanded on below: -

    A. I was hoping for a comment about whether or not the Z1000 Pro was sold as a HiFi model

    B. to E. First I am attaching Images below as follows: -

    Images 1 to 5 show the Zidoo set to Native DSD (I also set MP 6 the same) and playing a DSD64 title followed by a DSD128 title - the blue displays are what my DAC shows
    Images 6 to 10 show the Zidoo set to DoP (I also set MP 6 the same) and playing the same DSD64 and DSD128 titles as before
    Images 11 to 12 show the MP 6 and my DAC's displays when playing a DSD256 - with the Zidoo set to DoP

    PIC 1.jpg Pic 2.jpg Pic 3.jpg Pic 4.jpg Pic 5.jpg Pic 6.jpg Pic 7.jpg Pic 8.jpg Pic 9.jpg Pic 10.jpg Pic 11.jpg Pic 12.jpg

    The first thing to notice is that when set to DoP playback, DSD64 and DSD128 tracks play and display as they should - (Images 7, 8, 9 and 10). However DSD256 tracks do not display as they should (Images 11 and 12) - My DAC's display mirrors that of MP 6, so I believe that not only are the displays incorrect, the Zidoo is sending the wrong signal - my DAC displays what it receives.

    All DSD64, DSD128 and DSD256 tracks do not display as they should when playing back via Native DSD. NOTE: My DAC's display mirrors that of MP 6, so I believe that not only are the displays incorrect, the Zidoo is sending the wrong signal - my DAC displays what it receives.

    The DSD64 and DSD128 MP 6 displays, when playing Native DSD do not correlate to the MP 6 images in @CGI 's post in that they do not refer to "Native DSD". So I'm left totally confused. It is no good saying this is down to the DAC - it's confirmed that it supports Native DSD.

    So I believe in certain instances the Zidoo Z1000 Pro IS NOT SENDING CORRECTLY. That said @CGI seems to be able to play and display Native DSD correctly for DSD64 and DSD128 tracks so why can't I?
    Again I have to refer to the specs for both the Zidoo and the USB DAC.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2021
    Mentor27 likes this.
  18. CGI

    CGI Member

    Hi, works fine for me:

    Screenshot_20210305-200858.png

    Screenshot_20210305-201550.png

    don't have any higher bit DSD etc. DSD 512
     
  19. rozel

    rozel Active Member

    Thanks for sharing @CGI, very much appreciated.

    Yes it seems that on your system you are getting Native DSD256 too. So something is wrong on my setup or perhaps my USB DAC doesn't support Native DSD after all. But I'm curious to know what is wrong one way or the other.
     
  20. rozel

    rozel Active Member

    I have been playing with UAPP (USB Audio Player Pro) with my Android Tablet these past few days, and having issues thoughout. Thank you to @Nice Monkey who has been pointing me in the right direction. I'd like to update where I've got to and to explore where I might go next.

    First I was very hopeful when @Nice Monkey posted this in another thread: -

    Connected my Amanero based USB DIY-kit DAC to my Z9X and that was now recognized playing both HD PCM and DoP/Native DSD flawless. :)
    When connecting it reports nicely the brand found and the PCM formats (not DSD) supported by it. USB Output (On/Off) and DSD modes (D2P/Dop/Native) can be changed without needing a reboot or removing the DAC.
    I understand it is picky which DAC's are recognized. Seen the many updates products like USB Audio Player Pro (UAPP) did to get most working that is not to be assumed as common.
    I think it is pretty safe to presume all XMOS and Amanero based USB DAC's will work?
    DoP typically is supported more widely than Native DSD, but both work with my unit.

    I am using the very same USB DIY-kit DAC but playing it with my Z1000 Pro. I had thought therefore I would have the same experience as @Nice Monkey but I have struggled. Add to this @CGI has had success with his different DACs and I am sure you can see why I am confused.

    Nevertheless I felt sure I would get positive results with UAPP. First problem encountered, having connected to my DAC using a lengthy USB cable (see earlier), was I could not get over why my Tablet was sending the playback tracks through it's Android processor - tracks were identified as either 44.1 or 48KHz. Nice advised me to invoke the "bitperfect" setting - success! I then invoked "Native DSD Mode" but UAPP then said it did not recognize a "Native DSD Device"! - so it failed at the next hurdle.

    So I changed to DoP after which perfect DSD64 and DSD128 results - brilliant! as I did not have to go through my Zidoo at all. I went via the server installed on my NAS - "MinimServer". When playing back DSD256 or DSD512, they played but they played rather distorted. I increased the Buffer size but even at max, the distortion did not disappear. The sample rates shown on UAPP and the DAC's display are as per the attached images below.

    Main Findings: -
    Native DSD again not supported
    DSD256 albums were distorted even when I increased the Buffer setting in UAPP to its max My DSD512 album was also distorted similarly.
    UAPP showed it was sending the correct DSD Mode to the DAC - for DSD256: - 11.2MHz and for for DSD512: - 22.5MHz sampling frequency but it reports, in both cases, the DAC was only playing 352.8KHz as did the DAC itself.

    Questions: -
    Not sure if "Minim Server" is restricting playback? - it's found under the DNLA/UPNP setting after scraping the server via my PC - I'll research.
    Not sure if installing UAPP on the Zidoo, rather than on my Tablet, would reveal any different findings?
    Waiting for delivery of a new 256Gb memory stick. Going to transfer some DSD stuff to it and try again. Would this work if plugged into the Zidoo and how do I format the stick?

    As said before 2 steps forward and 1 step back :(

    Thanks

    20210310_114058.jpg 20210310_114113.jpg 20210310_114241.jpg 20210310_120351.jpg 20210310_114255.jpg
     

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