Zidoo Z1000 Pro – My High Definition Audio Experience (so far)

Did all my original reporting based on DSD64 not higher rates.

If UAPP displays sources as DSD256 and DSD512 at the bottom but Output as PCM 352.8 KHz then it did find the DAC not to be supporting these high DSD rates and changes to PCM.

I would expect results using UAPP to be the same using a tablet or Zidoo Android but one can never be sure.
Zidoo will accept exFAT, FAT32 or NTFS

 

Hi ,
I agree with what Nice Monkey says above.
long story short - your DAC, with the Amanero COMBO384 does not support native DSD; proof:
reference - https://www.amanero.com/drivers/combo384-D.pdf

it is written:

The DSD over USB format is detected when PCM sample with an alternate sequence of 32 FA05 token in the MSB part is received. The DSD managed frequencies are 2.822 Mhz, 3.072 Mhz, 5.644 Mhz, 6.144 Mhz. With ASIO Driver http://www.amanero.com/asio it's possible to play native DSD extending the range to DSD256 and DSD512.

And this is exactly DoP - encapsulating DSD in PCM and recognizing it by 32 FA05 token in the MSB part, then de-capsulating it to DSD
I do not think that the Amanero guys will miss to brag out if they supported native DSD

that is why, not recognizing the DAC capable of Native DSD it turns to DoP, and plays up to 384 which is the highest bandwidth, the DAC supports for playing DSD 128.

Would not bother as:
- rips over DSD 64 are rare
- no audible difference above DSD 64 (except for some super -doper vinyl rips , though I doubt )
- no audible diff b/n Native DSD and DoP

though I would rather (an i have done) install UAPP on my z1000pro, rather on a tablet or a phone and use local storage for playing HiRes formats through USB DAC connected to z1000pro. Do not like NASs (very low WAF) DNLA/UPNP, and I am pretty sure you'll have better results - to be honest - that's why i bought z100pro - for the internal HDD bay and ext SATA ability directly to it.

 

An update.............................

I have confirmed that what @CGI has said is 100% correct. Once I knew that my Amanero COMBO384 was limiting my DAC to DoP and DSD64 and DSD128 playing via my Zidoo, to extend the range I'd need to look at a Windows alternative - UAPP, Hiby Music Player and a host of other Android players would not change this in any way shape or form. Of course I have explored these, complete fun until you reach the same end result. There may be other USB Cards out there which would plug in to my DAC's motherboard and provide higher sampling rates, but my searches have not produced any results so far.

Thinking about things, there maybe limitations placed on my DAC on the way I'm trying to play my DSD files. First I have them stored on a NAS and playing over Ethernet may restrict. Secondly my Zidoo Z1000 Pro maybe doing the same. If one or both are restricting the range, then they are limiting to the SAME extent - ie; they allow playback to DSD128 over DoP only. I have read much about people who have similar issues but have read nothing about how to overcome them.

But DSD64 and DSD128 playback on my DAC is quite superb but I will say now, and amplify later, that I can definately hear a significant difference between DSD64 and DSD128. Because of this therefore, you will understand that I need to explore DSD256 & DSD512 separately. This will not therefore involve my Zidoo or TV until someone more experienced can tell me otherwise.

So how does one play DSD stuff via Windows? Well of course Foobar 2000! I have used this program on my PC for many years. But as my PC is in a room far away from my HomeTheatre Setup, USB connection to my DAC isn't practicable. So I twisted my daughter's arm, promised her an arm and a leg and she's allowed me to use her Windows 10 Laptop I set this up for her a year or so ago - an i5 Lenovo Thinkpad running the latest Windows 10 OS 64-bit. I started off by getting a large (250Gb) Memory Stick and having found the 2-part "Foobar 2000 Dummies Guide", printing this off and reading through it carefully. I had some knowledge of how to fettle the preferences as I play my DSD files stored on my NAS via my PC's sound card through the itsy bitsy speakers connected to it. As such I have never been bothered to test out Foobar's capabilities until about a week ago, when I was ready to give it a go on the Laptop.

Cutting a long story short, it took me from last Tuesday until last night to have any success but success, I had! There were quite a few programs (Foobar components) and drivers to download and quite a lot of complex adjustments. As you may guess once I got sound through the external USB DAC, initially it was limited to DSD128 lol! I did notice though definate clarity and further Sound Quality improvements. So spurred on by this, I investigated further how to get DSD256 and maybe DSD512 to playback. By now you'll know I'm a dog without a bone and didn't give up - I tinkered so much with the endless settings in Foobar 2000 (it's not for the faint hearted) that I really didn't think I'd get anywhere. So back to the Dummies Guide until I spotted a setting in the AISO driver 's Output and suddenly the music I was playing took on a different level! Wow! It sounded so good. So then I tried to play a couple of DSD256's and yes! They played back astoundingly. I followed this up with a DSD512 file (a solo concert piano piece) and was just blown away by the quality. Magnificent is all I can say!

So to say there's no difference between DSD64 or DSD128, let alone DSD256 and DSD512 is like saying you cannot be bothered trying to find out, your system is stuck on a limit and you are not going to investigate further - sorry guys, but that is how I feel right now but happy I'm making serious progress. AND more importantly the help given to me by @Nice Monkey and @CGI - THANK YOU!

I have no idea if I could fettle some more to get the same music playback at full range via my NAS, I doubt it, but I am currently clearing a powered external 700Gb drive to which I'll transfer a lot of my DSD / SACD files, on the basis that if I can get excellent results from my memory stick then I certainly will via an external HDD. Once I have got used to setting up the Laptop for quick playback, I'll look further into quite a few things that I haven't explored as yet.

I've asked (and waiting) what are the exact model numbers of the Internal DACs that Zidoo employ in the Z1000Pro and the UHD3000. I cannot say whether the UHD3000 does a better job than the Z1000 Pro because I don't own one but my Zidoo it seems is just not up to the High Definition output that true Audiophiles like me seek. Sad really as I was sold my Zidoo on the basis it was a "HiFi" model. But very pleased with my External USB DAC now and still learning so much.

A couple of images showing what my DAC is receiving when playing the higher definition DSD files.

 

First of all my congratulations to get it to work with Windows drivers. Good to share the results.
Not going to do try it myself. Moved instead more into the direction of MCH Music Playback. That gave me a whole new dimension added.

No Z1000 Pro is nowhere advertised as a HiFi model as far as I am aware of but yes as a High End model. This may be confusing? High End models get the fancy Black GUI and the BTv8 remote bundled. HiFi models are having an additional DAC panel board and thus far released are X20 Pro, UHD2000 and UHD3000 models.

 

Long Overdue Update

Hi all - I ended with my experience using MP6 on my Zidoo 1000Pro and then using Foobar2000 on a laptop and taking my Zidoo out of the equation altogether. I have also used UAPP on my Samsung Tablet with broadly similar results as @CGI. Foobar2000 certainly has worked much better with my external USB DAC - playing DSD256 and DSD512 extremely well. But ohh way too cumbersome for me given I was at that time experimenting between storing my audio files on my NAS and via my Ethernet network. Far too many cables for me on my Arm Chair. I needed a better solution. I also dabbled with Tidal but regrettably my DAC doesn't do the "second unfold" so I could listen to their MQA titles. A free 1 month subscription again using UAPP but linking it to Tidal presented me with no cost so I lapsed it, not having any benefit. I did download some 24/96 titles though using AudFree - again I used this on a 1 month free trial basis.

However before I move on I will say that the more I played with UAPP the more comfortable I became with it. I was also troubled with the .pdf @CGI pointed me towards regarding the specs of my DAC's USB card. The specs here, definately show that the card is capable of DSD256 and DSD512 AND Native DSD BUT you had to use it with ASIO Windows drivers, hence the reason I experimented using a Windows Laptop above. At that stage though I still could not hear Native DSD using Foobar2000. I also have read copious threads about using a NAS for storage of audio files and using either an Ethernet or WiFi Network - some people enjoy success and others do not. My NAS's are quite old now, particularly my ReadyNas Duo v2, on which is installed "MinimServer" - the only way and only NAS I have, that plays my files to any extent. So I made a decision to change the way I store my Music Files. I invested in a large 14Tb HDD which I would use installed in my Zidoo. Swapping this "Music" drive with my UHD "Film" drive is a doddle and the main advantage is that the files can now be considered to be "Local" to the Zidoo.

So next up was to install UAPP on the Zidoo - hardest part was to try and follow the various instructions to login to my Play Store account, dotted around the Zidoo forums, which are all wrong, which some people have pointed out but not giving the correct way (and I'm not going to either because I've forgotten lol!). Once sorted though UAPP can easily be downloaded and the good news is that having paid for the Licence originally for my Tablet, it covers multiple devices, so no further cost!

This is now where the fun or rather angst started with much hair pulling! There are a bajillion number of settings for UAPP and whilst I quickly found that PCM titles up to 32/384 and DSD titles to DSD128 can be played - I soon was dragged into many many attempts to adjust these settings, having got lots of advice from UAPP forum members and help from ExtremAudio, but I ended up still not happy with distorted and stuttering DSD titles. PCM titles were really good though. That was until Saturday morning! Because I had lost the original settings I decided to uninstall UAPP and reinstall it. Then I compared the default ones with those on my Tablet's application and changed the ones on the Zidoo to coincide. Voila! Music again to my ears I decided to close down UAPP and reopen it once I'd set the settings and THIS WAS A HUGE LEARN as I found out. I have this habit of changing settings on any device but never close down/reopen or reboot. So I decided to have a see if I could get Native DSD again. Why? Because contrary to the .pdf the settings for the Amanero Combo384 are actually: -

PCM:
44.1KHz, 48KHz, 88.2KHz, 96KHz, 176.4KHz, 192KHz (coaxial/optical input),
USB input support 352.8KHz, 384KHz

DSD:
USB INPUT support DSD native DSD64, DSD128, DSD256, DSD512 (Amanero USB module)
Coaxial/optical support DSD DOP up to DSD64.

From the above it can be seen that I should be getting Native DSD all along. So I set the Zidoo for Native DSD and REBOOTED - never rebooted after changing this setting or closed & reopened MP6 or UAPP before and lo and behold for the first time ever I received Native DSD !!! As mentioned before by @Nice Monkey it didn't sound any different but at least I now know how to get the external DAC to play nice

By now I had dragged out of hibernation my Vintage Amp, a Sugden A48 mkII, which has not seen the light of day for well over 30 years! Described on YouTube these days as a very solid (weighs a ton) British Amplifier on Steroids lol! Was keen to see what it sounded like with my High Def files so for a few weeks I fiddled around with 2 bought switches (one for the RCA output from the DAC and another to switch the speaker outputs from my Yamaha receiver and the Sugden). Was easy although spent weeks routing all the cables as my wife has always said "do not on any account turn our lounge into a Tandy's shop" - hope some of you oldies remember Tandy? I think they were owned by the US company Radio Shack, although I could be wrong. Hence the weeks that have passed leading up to this update.

So UAPP is installed on the Zidoo - the remote is useless with it, even if I place it in mouse mode. So a very nice chap in a UAPP forum suggested TeamViewer - woohoo! Free for personal use and can be used between 2 Android devices such as my Zidoo and Samsung Tablet. Works like a charm. And no more silliness with the remote which changes the DAC's input settings and/or the Filters if too close to the DAC and all from the comfort of my arm chair. Of course I need to manually switch the DAC on/off as well as the Sugden and the 2 other switches above but a small price to pay for my laziness!!!

Another reason to play with the Sugden is because I figured that using my Yamaha, I'm not certain that the Analogue RCA signals from the DAC are not being further "digitised" by the Yamaha and by placing the receiver into "PURE DIRECT" mode seemingly switches off the Bass signals altogether which of course with Home Theatre use are routed through my Sub. Again more lengthy discussions on my receiver's forum which haven't produced definite opinions as to why no bass is being heard. So I leave the receiver in 2.1 mode when comparing with my Sugden. The Sugden? Wow! It certainly stacks up with my Yamaha but there's a "Hum" which is very noticeable when the overall sound level is low and increases if you turn the volume knob up. Unfortunately J.E. Sugden are closed for repairs during lockdown, so I'm stuck for now.

But for now I have reached a very happy place - much much better than I was, after acquiring the DAC and something which with hindsight, has kept me engrossed during lock down

 

It is easy enough to replace the Amanero USB plug-in module with an XMOS module. These can be ordered separately. I think XMOS fully interworks with Android?

 

Thank you. Yes, this is what I thought too but after 3 months of searching on and off, I'm no nearer finding a suitable, better replacement than the Amanero Combo384. Maybe I'm searching in the wrong places - could you point me somewhere please?

Thanks

 

This is just an example
https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/1005001276137626.html?
https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/32995290284.html?
XMOS XU208 should do the trick? Be aware these exist in clones and original boards.
https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/1005002432258394.html?

Just contact the supplier. In most cases they are very friendly and willing to sell the individual components.

 

Thanks for the links @Nice Monkey, very interesting. Over the past couple of months I've been trying to see if there's anything better than the Amanero Combo384 interface card. I all the links I've searched, including the ones above, the suppliers always price the packages with the Amanero card the highest. On the principal that you get what you pay for, I think the Amanero may be the best "plug and play" card for my DAC board. The XMOS XU208 seems a tad cheaper and so am not sure what if anything it can deliver over the Amanero. I don't want to change the DAC board, although the Dual ES9038Pro DACs appeal over the single one in my unit

However I have uncovered the Singxer C-1 (there are F-1 and Q-1 versions of these but not sure what they bring to the table) and might be worth a punt. It's Xmos XU208 U8 based and advertised as an upgraded version. More importantly I have read somewhere that one of the highly aclaimed Gustard DAC models uses this interface card and it looks like I could simply unplug my Amanero and plug in this replacement card. Whether or not it will sound different, that'll be the fun to try.

Even more importantly though is that I am now getting to grips with what my Amanero will produce and until I have further experimented with it, I shall continue to research and, as you have suggested and write to a Supplier or two.

I would welcome your thoughts though as to why you suggested "XMOS XU208 should do the trick?". I am aware that there are clones out there, which if you try to flash, will brick them completely. Also is the DAC board easily removable from my unit, do you know? If so I might take a punt on the one you gave a link for: - https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/1005001276137626.html? I would just buy the basic board and swap it it with mine, if that were possible without any electronic giggery pokery as I am clueless with electronics, but can take things apart and rebuild them

 

No XMOS XU208 (XU216 includes MQA support) is not cheaper than Amanero. Many offers with XMOS are actually cloned versions and therefore cheaper.

No idea about plug compatibility with Singxer boards. The vendor should be able to tell.

Removing is very easy as it is just a connector pushed in. Nothing soldered.

Read a lot about Single versus Dual DAC versions and most audiophiles prefer single designs. Miniscule differences between 2 units apparently outweigh the potential sound advantages it appears?
Look impressive though.

 

Ahh - ok, I had not realised that, I genuinely thought it was the other way round - I must assume my Amanero Card is genuine? Are items sold on AliExpress considered genuine, do you know? I won't go down the change of the DAC board but I have already removed the Amanero card from my DAC just to take a peek and yes it is very easy to unplug and replace - I was talking about replacing the DAC board.

Intrigued though about the XMOS XU216 - I've googled a bit but I'm unable to come up with an actual interface card - just complete DAC units. Do you have a link or two maybe please?

 

On AliExpress anything is sold: cheap, expensive, genuine, imitation, fake etc.

XMOS XU216 won't do anything for MQA without a matching APP and drivers. Selling cards only does not make a lot of sense then.

 

Thanks - I understand now about AliExpress. UAPP integrates with Tidal nicely which has a rather large portfolio of MQA Masters. I'd like to sample those if it's possible

I've come across this Card: -

https://www.diyinhk.com/shop/audio-...24-high-quality-usb-to-i2sdsd-pcb-type-c.html

Would it be a simple case of removing the Amanero and replacing it with this? Or would it be a lot more complicated? Sorry for keep coming back, I'm just trying to understand.

 

The shape and the connector is different so no 1:1 fit for sure. Looks like a quality card though.

 

Thanks again - much appreciated

 

Just pulled the trigger on one of these - it will be very interesting to see if it fits and/or if it's sounds any better The specs say "Screw I2S row needle position is fully compatible with Italian Amanero module" so looks like plug and play - I'll see. It is the first time I've used Aliexpress - I have ordered from Yaoyaotiger HIFI Audio Store, Shenzhen, Guangdong, China. They seem to have been going quite a few years and have a decent rating. Guess it will be next month before it arrives.

 

Looks like a fine board to me. You may need to unsolder the pins or ask to ship without. They often do these small things for you.

 

Yes I've been coming back to this one over the past couple of months - there's an F-1 too but this is much more expensive - has a coax output on the other end, not sure why I would want one!

file:///C:/Users/Paul's%20PC/Desktop/SINGXER-C-1-XMOS-Digital-Interface-Board-XU208-U8-Upgraded-Version-Femtosecond-TCXO.jpg_Q90.jpg_.webp

From this photo it does seem it will just slot into where the Amanero comes out. Attached is a pdf I've created from the online specs sheet which gives more information on its capabilities

 

The F1 is meant to be used also for SPDIF COAX output to connect to an Expensive/Quality external DAC without an own USB/XMOS interface.
The precise adapted clocking is then applied to that output signal. The new Dune HD Ultra Vision 4K has also such an output interface included. I don't think very many will use it in practice.

Will be nice to hear your experiences with it. I expect them to be minimal and only with very good sourced music.

 

Thanks for explaining - I've much to learn! I'm hearing though that the C-1 has a nicer sound with louder and firmer bass - this will suit my setup

Did you ever manage to remove/replace the DAC Board itself?