Recommended Settings and other useful stuff for RTD 1619DR Players

Why is it not possible to control image, color, brightness and saturation if LLDV is activated?

 

Because Dolby don't want you to.

 

Just curious why advised against using 12-bit 4:2:2??

Also when I was watching 'Spider-Man.No.Way.Home.2021.2160p.UHD.x265.10bit.HDR.DTS-HD.MA.TrueHD.7.1.Atmos' I thought the picture was a little dull. Is there a setting I can try to maybe brighten and make the colours a little more vivid?

 

To be honest there's nothing wrong with 4:2:2, it's just that I feel that the conversation from 4:2:0 (as encoded) to 4:4:4 is less liable to display interpolation than 4:2:0 to 4:2:2 because of the way the pixel colours are transformed - if you google 4:2:2 you'll see what I mean.

Colour timing - or probably better expressed as the "digital" version - "colour grading" these days, is an incredibly delicate process in post production and very much a subjective process that covers the whole feel of a movie - whether your perception of the image is due to the grade or your particular setup is very much down to that set up - I have to admit that although I may disagree occasionally (very occasionally!) with particular decisions made in post, I haven't found a single instance where I find images wanting for either brightness or colours so I always figure that such shortcomings are due to the local setup rather than the grade.

I know many will disagree with this but once the playing field is level as far as playback parameters are concerned, the grade is the grade is the grade and you have to trust that the guy in the darkened room knows his stuff and just go with it.

 

As well as the grading suite, the whole colour balance can be affected by numerous variables along the chain. The colour of your room, the monitor itself and the colour temperature of surround or ambient light. G*d help us from those kaleidoscope of changing strip lights behind the TV screen constantly changing like a 1970's disco so"fashionable" today! https://www.redsharknews.com/post-v...sential-tips-for-setting-up-your-grading-room

 

Thanks for your explanation! Very informative.
It's not that I didn't like the movie quality, it had great detail. I will trust the guy in the darkened room!

 

Just on this note - completely agree. Shame on player led DV that it ouputs 4.2.2 12bit, rather than 4.4.4 10bit, but I guess that might be out of DV specs? Although, RGB 8bit is technically 4.4.4, so I don't know (I get DV RGB 8bit is 12bit tunneled, but it's still RGB).

 

Dolby chose 12-bit 4:2:2 because at 4K23 it only transmits over HDMI at 297MHz which is compatible with HDMI 1.4, although the wheels fall off that somewhat at 4K60.

Like other 10-bit content, Dolby streams are encoded in 4:2:0 but the process by which Dolby get from one or two (depending on Profiles) 10-bit 4:2:0 streams to a 12-bit 4:2:2 stream is part of their algorithm so there is a definite benefit there.

In the case of processing a full enhancement layer (which of course the Zidoo doesn't do), Dolby are actually recreating the full 12-bit signal from two 10-bit streams in 4:2:2.

Yes, RGB 8-bit is technically the same signal as RGB, ie lossless, but a different thing is happening with Dolby Vision - in that case the 12-bit signal is being encapsulated in an 8-bit RGB stream using a technique called HDMI tunnelling (worth a Google).

As it happens, the Dolby Spec allows for 10-bit 4:4:4 and 12-bit 4:4:4 Player Led Dolby Vision which is easily "switched on" by changing the Dolby block in the EDID, but I can't see any difference when trying it - all you seem to do is increase the HDMI bandwidth.

There are a couple of EDIDs that enable this here if you want to try (depends whether your display supports it or not):

http://forum.zidoo.tv/index.php?threads/edid-thread-fw-v6-1-10-onwards-updated.86856/

 

Thanks Mark. Yeah, I tried the one I think you are referring to, but that only seems to work for outputting everything as DV 4.4.4 10bit, rather than ONLY outputting DV as 4.4.4 10bit, unless I tried the wrong one?

 

It's this one:

BT.2020 1,000nit LLDV (10-bit 444/RGB, 12-bit 444/RGB, 12-bit 422) and HDR10+

https://mega.nz/file/pboGzY4Q#sjLkHkEoxeKwpJBLOMMkEcU35a7uwNPD9OLucXC725A

In addition to the usual 12-bit 4:2:2 LLDV, this allows 10-bit 4:4:4, 10-bit RGB, 12-bit 4:4:4 and 12-bit RGB LLDV in the HDR settings.

 

Yeah thanks, that's the one I tried. Like I mentioned in my post above, it only allows me to select LLDV 4.4.4 10bit for everything, rather than only DV content at 4.4.4 10bit, so looks like I'll have to settle for DV RGB 8bit (12bit tunneled) or 4.2.2 12bit for DV content.

Might be useful though to be able to have a DV override setting and output DV content at 4.4.4 10bit, so that the RGB conversion only happens once, and only at the TV end of the chain, rather then having to make a choice between RGB or 4.2.2.

Thanks anyways.

 

As I say, there's really no benefit in using 4:4:4 for LLDV, it's more for curiosity - it just increases HDMI bandwidth for 4K23~30 and doesn't even exist in the HDMI 2 spec at 10-bit for 4K50~60.
I only know of two groups players that will actually allow it - the Realtek 1619 players and Tascam UHD BluRay players.

 

ok, thanks.

 

Just out of curiosity Mark, what if I happen to be using a hdmi 2.1 cable that's capable of 48gbps? Can you experiment with other settings? If so what would those settings be?

 

As far as image quality and parameters are concerned, absolutely nothing - whether the cable is HDMI 1, 1,4, 2.0 or 2.1 has no impact whatsoever on image quality - the only difference is attainable bandwidth.

The cable I use in my cinema is a 15M contract cable we used to use for commercial installations back in the early days of HDMI and I installed it in 2005/2006. We used to buy them by the pallet load from China - they were cheap as chips but made exceedingly well - it's as thick as my index finger. And bearing in mind this was 3 years before HDMI 1.4 was released - at that time it was just an "HDMI cable" - this works to the full 600MHz of HDMI 2.0.

 

@Markswift2003 Are you using this HDMI cable with a projector and no issue at all? Maybe the Vertex2 is helping a lot!!

 

I am using this HDMI cable with a JVC X7000 projector with no issues since 2006 when I only had Standard Definition DVD in the cinema. Now it's obviously full 4K and works with no problems.

The Vertex2 has absolutely no influence over this at all - Arguably the Vertex can be used to regenerate the HDMI signal if used at the projector, but in my case it sits between the Zidoo and the amp and the 15M HDMI runs from the amp to projector. I use a Dune and a Shield too, neither of which are connected to the Vertex and both work flawlessly at 4K23~60.

I guess they don't make 'em like they used to

I have a 30M HDMI cable from the same company installed elsewhere in the house - this run is now redundant, but I've always been curious to try it at 4K.

 

Lucky as that's not my case and of many others elsewhere. It maybe that HDMI cables of early production are high standards compared to actual capable of 4k ones.

 

Hi,

LG CX, Infuse on Apple TV 4K, Z9X v6.3.88, 2x the same HDMI cable to Denon.
pitch black room.
Apple TV... perfect black.
Zidoo…not.
After this intro, picture is fine when movie starts.

any ideas?

i know... new replaced panel (3 weeks), banding, pixel refresh… done.
5% gray test, still visable banding.

 

What's the source file?