Music Player inconveniences and suggested improvements

Discussion in 'HDD Media player(RTD 1619DR)' started by Nice Monkey, Jun 3, 2022.

  1. Nice Monkey

    Nice Monkey Well-Known Member Beta test group

    Now that Zidoo keeps coming with new Neo players focusing on music playback it is about time for such a topic.

    It is not about essential MP playback problems which is already covered here:
    http://forum.zidoo.tv/index.php?thr...ms-upto-fw-v6-4-06-no-feature-requests.84836/
    Basic playback is by now working correct for all 2CH album formats and almost all MCH album formats and is including MCH SACD via DSD => PCM.

    It is good to see Client/Server library services from ROON, JRiver, Plex, Emby and Jellyfin to be supported. Now offering customers a wide choice of music playing setups including mixed player platforms with shared libraries &streaming services plus transcoding where and when needed.

    Neither about file structuring and naming conventions which is already covered too:
    http://forum.zidoo.tv/index.php?threads/how-to-tag-and-structure-music-collection-for-mp.91886/
    But there is a relation with this for some features as MP7 works for those only if structured the way foreseen. Will report in both when these conditions are found.

    It is about things which are missing features, are inconvenient, are displayed wrong under certain conditions or simply don't work for your collection/use. Zidoo is specifically invited to comment on this list and clearly mark FW updates with fixes.
    Hot items are tagged in red as they seriously impact the average user experience. Without solving these the serious gap between the HW and Music Player capabilities/quality remains.
    Items marked
    orange are essential features missing which ought to be be present on above all Neo class players.

    1) Lyrics may show HTML apostrophes as text e..g. "'" or """
    It happens with some lyrics but doing a search for other versions for the same track it may show these correctly. This is very annoying as it makes lyrics (almost) unreadable.
    Seems to be solved with FW 6.4(7).20 for all models

    2) There is no specific view for Album-Artist
    This is the main view used the most by many users including me. It is also how the physical CD's were in the past typically organized in racks. Just Artist as done now will show all artists including those on collection albums and large collections like Top-2000. This makes the effective view/sort/search on artist nonfunctional for large(r) collections.
    When the album folder name includes "Various" or Various Artists" it should be excluded from the album-artist view or preferable be listed all under Artist=Various.
    Implemented in a different way with FW 6.4(7).20 for all models on the TV screen but neither on the Front Panel nor using the Zidoo Controller APP yet

    3) Use the info in tracks including tags

    Tracks with tags (e.g. MP3/FLAC) should show at least: Artist, Album and Track/Title derived from those. A preference option may be used to achieve this: Preference set to Tagged Data = ON/OFF.
    Pressing Info all tag fields available should be shown. An option to edit them could be nice too but prefer using a PC for that myself.
    Need to look at this in more detail to see what it actually does.

    4) Scraping is extremely slow (forget about really big libraries for now)
    It takes hours to do just a few 1000 tracks. Being SATA attached is the fastest. Have a test folder with less than 100 tracks for testing just to see what it does for some features. Doing frequent resets on that one as explained with the various items. Even with this small one it is a real wait.
    Solved with FW 6.7.20 for Neo models doing roughly 1000 tracks/minute. Tested by me up to 65.000+ tracks. The actual single scan and total library track number upper limits are not known by me. During these scans the scanning rate varied between 1000 and 250 tracks/minute which is good enough for me as it will deal with most collections I expect.

    5) It should be possible to create multiple collections.

    A show total view should include all and also a search should work per collection or for all. Can be by genre or other choices with (very) large collections. I e.g. use it for MP3, CD, SACD, DTS-CD etc. collections.

    6) Artist + Track may be shown (Album not shown) or just the Filename of the track
    Artist + Track display works only if:
    - Characters with overstrikes are not present in names as these are not recognized for this feature to work!
    - The structure must be "Track Nr - Track Name - Artist". Strange enough also "Artist - Track Nr - Track Name" works.
    My own HDD is standardized "Track Nr - Artist - Track Name" for Collection-Albums and "Track Nr - Track Name" for Artist-Albums having no Artist field in the name at all. Including Artist for those is superfluous and makes the display unnecessarily longer. This is a very common structure used by many others too making the feature not working at all.
    - Works only if the album is scanned first but can be played next using Media Center.
    There are likely consequences to not deriving the Artist during scanning for other features?
    Album is more relevant for me than the Artist. Obviously all 3 should be shown here as most music players do.

    7) Missing a big font (scrolling) selectable display on the Neo models for: Artist, Album and Track/Title.
    Must be readable from typical listening distance. Suggested are 3 lines with just that actual content. No need to put: Artist, Album or Track/Title in front as these just eat valuable space. If scrolling causes (potential) resource problems then just truncate/limit these displays making the display static. Can't be a hard problem to add this display? But obviously related to #3 and #6 for retrieving the actual content to be displayed.

    8) Seamless integration with popular Client/Server APP's for external library services
    Using alternative music library APP's using full function internal players for video and music. If available also the Android based Server support should be included.
    Good progress is noted here for all mentioned (Roon, JRiver, Jellyfin, Plex, Emby etc) with the exception of Emby (which runs fine but lacks Internal Player support).

    9) Album art may not be shown always despite a folder.jpg file being included in the folder
    The problem only occurs when the track is provided with tags. It seems that some programs tag the picture in different way (e.g. ExactAudioCopy v1.3). A windows media player will then show the picture but MP6 won't. Neither then does my Windows M3Tag App. Using that program to replace the tag with the e.g. included correct folder.jpg file will make it show up correctly with MP6 permanently.

    10) Album art is cached once being played.
    This makes it impossible to replace the picture by simply replacing the source file. Only a library clean will reset the artwork used but that requires a new scan.
    Please add tag updating/correcting as an option per album: "Re-write Tags/Cover" on-demand and real time command.
    Solved with FW 6.7.18 for Neo models which allows the total Album art cache to be reset.

    11) Technical track format details (left on the screen) misses sample-size info
    It includes sampling-rate but not the sample-size which in my hearing tests is a lot more relevant (16, 20, 24, 32 bit)
    Implemented only on Neo models as it is shown on the Front Panel then.

    12) Moving the cursor around for the various views and panels is neither easy nor intuitive.
    It is easy to loose the notion where it actually is as screen layouts work with subsections and one may need to do many cursor moves to get to another section on the screen. As-is it almost asks for using a pointer mouse.

    13) Disturbing/weird (English) language problems
    English bad translations get most likely next translated to other bad translations again. Please add others found.
    The most important got fixed already but e.g. still see:
    - Scraping musics => Scraping source or scraping target (musics in not an English word at all)
    - Riping with CD Extractor +> Should be Ripping as only fruits do ripe. Was changed on some instance(s).

    14) Support PLS and M3U playlists
    Both formats are commonly used and widespread. Now only created playlists with MP are working.

    15) Marking all Lyrics found as unmatched.
    Even doing a lookup no (acceptable) match may be found. It is not possible to mark this hiding any currently found sources.

    16) Missing an option to show filenames with the extension.
    Some like that and others don't. OFF as the default.

    17) Missing an option to show track numbers in front of track/title

    Showing track numbers in front is often an option with music players as some like that and others don't. OFF as the default.

    18) Add a configurable equalizer feature
    Won't be using that one myself but customers do expect such a feature on players in this price class for sure.

    19) Integrate popular for free and on-demand streaming music services.
    Access to the very large number of free radio services could also be done using a separate APP.

    20) On demand tag/cover updating from a few popular sources
    This similar to what several CD ripping programs include. Also renaming the track titles (if not included from the Artist + Album folder name).

    Nothing in here which is not be expected from a quality media player I think? :rolleyes:
    Sorry Zidoo but still a lot of work to do but good progress is noted. :p
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2022
    fsim2000 and gymnos like this.
  2. Magnus hedlund

    Magnus hedlund New Member

    4) Foreign characters (text) should work in Album or Artist. Example åäöÅäö.
    5) Use embedded Tag's in FLAC files.
     
  3. Magnus hedlund

    Magnus hedlund New Member

    Regarding åäöÅÄÖ, could you test the uploaded file.
    The MP does not, on my Neo X, extract the Song - Album - Artist.
    (Matching settings: Only use local data)
     

    Attached Files:

  4. Nice Monkey

    Nice Monkey Well-Known Member Beta test group

    Screenshot_20220609-221652.png View attachment 9220 What is the problem? The title only scrolls lower-left window but matches 100%.

    No it does not show the MP3/FLAC tag, but that is known.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2022
  5. Magnus hedlund

    Magnus hedlund New Member

    I have attached the same FLAC-file, but without the foreign characters.
    Then you can see in the attached pictures how it shall look like when the MP software does it right.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Nice Monkey

    Nice Monkey Well-Known Member Beta test group

    OK we are talking about when does MP detect/display the "Artist plus Track" and when does it just "display the track Filename" instead?
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2022
  7. Magnus hedlund

    Magnus hedlund New Member

    As long as there is a track number first in the file-name, the tracks (songs) in the album will be played in the right order.
    So it would be nice if Zidoo can accept foreign characters in the Album and Artist strings. Wouldn't be that difficult to fix it in the SW.
    (or better use the Tag's in the file, if there are any).
     
  8. Nice Monkey

    Nice Monkey Well-Known Member Beta test group

    Added both suggestions and a lot more.
    Frankly a bit surprised on the few comments and reactions.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2022
  9. Visconti12

    Visconti12 Active Member

    I fully support your suggestion and can't give you more comments since I seldom using the Zidoo for MP but for movie player instead, sorry!!
     
  10. Markswift2003

    Markswift2003 Well-Known Member SUPER Administrator Beta test group Contributor

    I've been trying to get the devs to support Album Artist and Compilation tags for quite a while now - these are the very basics of hanging a music database together - but I think part of the problem is they just don't have a music library big enough so they don't see the problem.

    My music library is over 124,000 tracks (all FLAC) with thousands of tracks in compilation albums and all tagged correctly so MP is utterly unusable for me.

    I was hoping MP7 was going to be a rewrite, but unfortunately, not so.

    I believe it needs a complete rethink and I've suggested looking at how other people do it - Linn is a great example - their music client is simple and extremely efficient in use - that's what I use for serious music listening along with Squeezebox for whole house stuff. But in MP6/7 the basics just aren't there - even to the extent of browsing Albums listed by particular Artists (Album Artist) is impossible or simply scrolling down to a particular artist is a chore. And when you eventually get there you only get a list of tracks. Maddening.
     
    gymnos likes this.
  11. Nice Monkey

    Nice Monkey Well-Known Member Beta test group

    Frankly it could work quite well without using the database as a start. Used e.g. UAPP before and that doesn't use a database but still being a good player.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2022
  12. Markswift2003

    Markswift2003 Well-Known Member SUPER Administrator Beta test group Contributor

    Yep - you're absolutely right. The big difference between a music source and movie source is that (if you take it seriously) you'd have already tagged your entire library as part of the ripping process and don't need a client to do it again.

    As I say, I really think the devs need to look to how others have implemented a music player rather than reinventing the wheel.

    This is how Linn presents their interface - nothing clever, and extremely intuitive and the iOS app is brilliant.

    upload_2022-6-11_9-34-9.png
     
    fsim2000 and gymnos like this.
  13. Visconti12

    Visconti12 Active Member

    Yes, I support your suggestion as well: simple, intuitive and easy to handle.
     
  14. mirror

    mirror Well-Known Member SUPER Administrator Zidoo TECH Supporter

    Checking for 1,2,3,4.
    There should be a beta version soon.
     
  15. Nice Monkey

    Nice Monkey Well-Known Member Beta test group

    Thanks' for responding. :)
    Made several updates and corrections. Added also an orange marking for essential features missing. Please comment on #7 as it should be easy to do and make a real difference for Neo models. ;)
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2022
  16. Marmigiu

    Marmigiu New Member

    Hello guys, i hope that i'm using the right topic to report this problem. I've recently installed the beta version (6.4.0.6) on my Zidoo UHD 3000, but now i've noticed that the in Album menu the covers do not show up correctly (I have something like 3000 Album, that were loading correctly in my Zidoo 2000). I've tried to reset the system, but nothing changed. Is there something that i can do in order to resolve this problem?
     
  17. Nice Monkey

    Nice Monkey Well-Known Member Beta test group

    You mean to say that they don't show up for all? Reporting here is fine but more details are needed.

    There is a lot written about covers showing up and in fact improvements made to make it happen in more cases. It is not totally solved just see item #9 and item#10 above. Be aware UHD2000 and UHD3000 run different FW hence also MP versions.
    Next to Folder.jpg also Cover.jpg, Front.jpg and artist.album.jpg (=jpg matching the full folder name) is used automatically if found now with UHD3000. Did not test the order of preference for those when multiple are present.

    You tried to reload them after doing a clean/reset database? Are those covers not showing maybe also include as a tag?
    Did not see any cases anymore myself which could not be tied to mentioned item #9 and item#10 which both can be bypassed.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2022
  18. Marmigiu

    Marmigiu New Member

    If I wait 1/2 minutes without touching anything the album covers visible on the screen usually show up, but as soon as I start to move inside the list with the remote controller, they disappear. I'm gonna try to clear the database and see what happens, I'll let you know!
     
  19. Nice Monkey

    Nice Monkey Well-Known Member Beta test group

    You are talking using the library in album or artist views.
    Never got that far myself.
     
  20. Marmigiu

    Marmigiu New Member

    hello, nothing even zidoo contacted by me knows what to do. They say I have too many files the thing that bothers me is that the same hard drive worked perfectly on Zidoo 2000
     

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