New top model UHD2000 with HD Audio including SACD/DSD

Discussion in 'HDD Media player(RTD 1296)' started by Nice Monkey, May 28, 2019.

  1. Nice Monkey

    Nice Monkey Well-Known Member Beta test group

    This is the new flagship Zidoo model with HD Audio including SACD/DSD:
    Introduced at the 27th Shanghai International Hi-Fi Exhibition SIAV 2019 , which was held on 12 - 14 April 2019.
    Now also announced for Europe:
    https://www.zidoo.tv/Product/index/model/UHD2000/target/+S1T99[ld]Q8MRKKmVViAFMcQ==.html

    In fact the now added XMOS chipset is used to interface the SOC via internal USB with the SABRE ES9038 DAC instead of going straight I2S:
    RTD1296 SOC (USB) => XMOS => ES9038 => Analog RCA/XLR.
    This is a minimal clock-jitter proven HQ design with very relevant off-the-shelf Android audio drivers for it.
    It does not improve audio quality directly as such but enables all HD audio features of that excellent DAC to be accessed optimally including native SACD/DSD output.
    USB also overcomes the SPDIF upper bandwidth limitations for HD audio via PCM/DSD streams. Technically the PCM limit via USB is up to 32-bit 768 kHz and DSD512 but frankly that is just the commercial talk.

    This said we have also the 5 functional differences with the X20 Pro:
    - The sound quality is in theories better due to including a linear PSU and minimal clock-jitter interfacing. Differences will be challenging to hear and be very subjective to reproduce for standard available albums and records.
    - Only if you really purchase/own direct studio master recordings in PCM formats above 24-bit 192 kHz and/or SACD's in DSD format then this model will reproduce these without down-scaling or DSD conversion to PCM unlike the X20 Pro does.
    - Using a well known USB (XMOS) interface with matching drivers the new UHD2000 is potentially compatible with Music Player APP's supporting External USB DAC"s? This is not as trivial as it sounds as some may prefer one of the well known Music Player APP's above the bundled Zidoo Music Player 5.0 APP.
    - Using a quality Linear PSU is always a step forward as rockstable power is the source for the best possible video and audio which may be produced. Digital circuitry benefits from it as it stabilizes most of all clock circuitry avoiding potential jitter. Power consumption will be considerable higher as a linear PSU consumes 10% of nominal capacity minimal even with zero load. Assuming a 60W PSU being deployed that will be above 6 W extra. Frankly this is still peanuts compared with what a big TV and worse a HT AMP+Subwoofer consume. Sleepmode will almost be the same. A special standby circuit is added switching off the main transformer to avoid deep standby load to go up with the same amount! Remark: deep standby must be below 1W/0.5W according EC regulations!
    - 12V 5A linear PSU including a special voltage adopting mechanism to deal with 110V-120V and 220v-240V ranges avoiding the need to set voltage ranges manually. The PSU selects the correct mains automatically (picture shows 115V and 230V outputs on the transformer as usual). The transformer is also nicely shielded and hopefully absolutely silent as it should be. This is a really smart move by Zidoo as people have forgotten to check for voltage ranges and this design avoids potential serious damages.

    In contrary to the Dune HD Ultra 4K and Eweat R11 it facilitates dual HDD slots. It got the great looks of an Egreat A13 with a flap for the dual HDD bays similar to the single one on the Z1000. The back just looks identical to a X20 Pro. Additional features like External USB/SPDIF inputs and headphone & trigger panels included by both Dune & Eweat were not added.
    The inside is very much X20 Pro alike only far more crowded. Other general specifications include 4 GByte RAM, 32 GByte flash, Bluetooth (BT) remote control and one USB 3c port just like X20 Pro. USB3c is good as it should work in both host/slave modes (my RTD1295 based Xtreamer eXpress with USB3c does so). It looks the inserted HDD on the right hides the 2x USB2 ports below (if these are on the same place as with X20 Pro too which they most likely are).

    A question remaining is will MCH DSD tracks be supported and is the ES9038 option for "Pass L+R" or "Down-mix to L+R" made available for those? In fact this is not HW related but depending on the bundled Music Player capabilities using the new Audio Panel.

    Other details and an European prices: € 759.- here:
    https://dnltrading.com/gb/zidoo/589...etwork-media-player-android-smart-tv-box.html
    And at Futeko slightly more expensive € 767,- here:
    https://www.futeko.com/products/MP101.php
    According to the German Zidoo site this price will go up considerably (€ 80) after introduction?
    https://www.zidoo.de/produkte/zidoo-uhd2000-4k-android-mediaplayer-vorbesteller-sonderpreis

    Must say this completes a nice Zidoo line of media players for all budgets. Do have the gut feeling X20 will be replaced by Z1000 and X20 Pro by UHD2000 4K as soon this baby is out mid October (once more a delay was announced).
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019 at 12:23 PM
    gymnos likes this.
  2. Zigourney

    Zigourney Member

    The design looks very nice...its not for me as I use a 4 bay NAS and I don't really listen to much music, so don't need high end audio, but there is certainly a market for this type of high end gear.
     
  3. Reelyator

    Reelyator Member

    Nice Device but with a Banana Software like the Music Player 3.0 not worth a penny.

    I am waiting since years for a instruction how to set up a SACD Iso Database but not getting ANY Feedback from Zidoo support at all...
     
  4. Nice Monkey

    Nice Monkey Well-Known Member Beta test group

    I agree that a box like this will only really sell with a (near) perfect Music Player coming along with it. I would not call it Banana Software but essential work is still needed on Music Player 3.0 for sure.

    My pants fell down reading that Dune is bundling their flagship with just a copy of HibyMusic (they must be kidding).

    A database for SACD ISO? How many do you own? I am not a specific Classical Music lover myself and then the number of SACD's available which I really like is quite limited. The only grouping I make for SACD is MCH and 2CH.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2019
    myzidoo and gymnos like this.
  5. Nice Monkey

    Nice Monkey Well-Known Member Beta test group

    First delivery seems to be end of August beginning of September (Futeko stock expected 29 august). That is much later than originally planned.
    Maybe the power standby implementation was changed to meet EC regulations? We will see when finally available.

    For the green guys among the readers added something about Linear PSU's and power consumption during operation and more relevant standby. Obviously during operation it is peanuts compared with a big TV and worse a HT Amplifier/subwoofer.

    Link to a distributor with Italian price added to the article and also added the Futeko link. Specifications confirm all assumptions made earlier. What is new is a USB3c port being included. They apparently listened to that request too (USB 3c can support host/slave modes).
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2019
  6. Tof78

    Tof78 New Member

    Why doing a audiophile device while Music Player V5.0 can't support gapless playback?
    That's a basic feature that any player should support but not a Zidoo device.
    It is a must have for an audiophile device, to listen live or concept album (think about "The Dark Side of The Moon" - Pink Floyd)
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2019
    gymnos likes this.
  7. Nice Monkey

    Nice Monkey Well-Known Member Beta test group

    Great album (listen the SACD version or the BD). Indeed it is for any live album or concert. I would be surprised if it is not coming; this probably before its release in a month. The player is clearly still being worked on hard.

    Also have good hopes it will work with other commercial USB Music Player APP's which amongst others do include gapless playback giving owners a choice of APP to use with it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2019
  8. Tof78

    Tof78 New Member

    to be honest, I've bought this device to replace my HiMedia Q10 Pro because the Android Sample Rate Control is removed and it could allow me to play my 192khz FLAC (I don't really have any SACD...) or even just my 44.1khz files at the right sample rate (without the 48khz SRC from Android).
    But this MusicPlayer V5.0 is so much disapointing... It just doesn't work. Songs/Album are mismatched. When you choose artist, it shows all the songs randomly, not sorted by album (while all my files have accurate ID and all albums are sorted into separated folders). When you choose album, it is also sorted not by artist but again randomly. Totally useless... Actually it just doesn't work as it should for a player app, forcing me to use the file manager to select a folder corresponding to an album then launch the files to play it... looks like a device from the 90's... Trust me I don't regret my Asus O!Play and his stupid interface !

    What's the hope Zidoo developper just propose a simple but working Music Player App? Or why not making ZMBC have a kind of wrapper for music (like the wrapper for videos) to remove the SRC limitation?
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2019
    gymnos likes this.
  9. Nice Monkey

    Nice Monkey Well-Known Member Beta test group

    @Tof78 alias Christophe78
    Indeed that is what I do too: Using the File Manager to select my songs. As I organized my music in my manner not a real problem. Use the new Zidoo Controller APP on my phone to select an album (default set to File Manager) and start playback from there works easy even without turning on my TV.

    The Music Player sounds fine now which is the core functionality but the music organizer is still useless for most in the current implementation agreed.
    I know many like to see the artwork and metadata of the albums shown correctly with it.
    The most important choice I miss today is: "Map My Folders to Albums" ON/OFF.

    One can use HibyMusic as a free alternative choice:
    - Needs to be installed by an APK manually as the Play Store marks it as incompatible (which in fact it is mostly not)
    - Works only using a real pointermouse (a cursor mouse won't do anything, neither a normal Remote Control)
    - Plays all essential audio tracks including SACD ISO but all are converted to Android 48 kHz
    - The Folder Scanning works well as it finds my albums correctly
    - It does support Gapless playback
    It does well what Music Player 5.0 does not do yet but misses the support for lossless sound playback. With UHD2000 4K most likely the USB interface will be found and work accordingly uniting both goodies. Even then still with a clumsy control interface and I hope Zidoo will do their homework quick.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2019
    Юрий Гандев and gymnos like this.
  10. Map My Folders to Albums will be great!
     
  11. futeko.com

    futeko.com Member

    The app needs an option for a more simple interface, bypassing Zidoo's music scraping entirely. Folder based. Playback is great but the media browser does need work, especially compared to the video browser which is excellent.
     
  12. zarathoestra

    zarathoestra Member

    Does it play Dolby vision = No
    Does it play HDR 10+ = No
    Is it Stable = doubt it
    Just skip it and wait for the next Soc with more possebilties then this one.
    Start saving now ;)
     
    gymnos likes this.
  13. futeko.com

    futeko.com Member

    It's likely that no media player will ever support Dolby Vision. Dolby won't issue a licence for media players. So you're looking at UHD-BD players with their mainstream limitations or the hacked Oppo firmware box (a very risky option imo).

    HDR10+ is possible with current hardware. It may come to existing models.

    If you want stable then a new SOC is very unlikely to deliver it. You're more likely looking at several years of firmware development before reaching stability.

    In the meantime, Zidoo's Realtek 1296 firmware is now very stable, with the video playback side of it already excellent and big improvements in music audio on their way. UHD2000 has a proven top quality DAC connected via USB so compatible with many HD-Audio Android apps. It's a great solution for both 4K Video and the best possible quality HD-Audio.
     
    skelton and gymnos like this.
  14. zarathoestra

    zarathoestra Member

    As(ex) owner of many of these mediaboxes (zidoo x10 -x20pro-zappiti one - dune hd pro - egreat a10 they deliver just the same PQ with minor differences. They are as stable or unstable just as you prefer it . A 450 euro gap between the zidoo x10 and x20pro for just a new lay out and pretty same performances sound to me like moneygrabbin .
    They promise a lot but they just don't deliver . The only one worth mentioning is the zap with a great home theatre app which is to me graphical a bit old fashioned but works 100%. And for that hacked oppo box it's worth the risk because it works with DV and Hdr 10+ and if i don't well you lose 250 euro's always better then paying for an overrated mediabox of 750 euro's.:D
     
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  15. Nice Monkey

    Nice Monkey Well-Known Member Beta test group

    @futeko.com
    It is a big surprise to me that HDR10+ is technically possible with a RTD1296 SOC. Any source for that? Agree any new platform will take 1 to 2 years to get stable again. It took Zidoo a year to move to Android 7 and RTD 1296 not even being a total real new SOC design. I feel most problems were actually originating from the Android 7 move.

    @zarathoestra
    - In my view DV and HDR10+ are overrated compared with HDR10 which was a big step. Also very little material to watch in these formats (some UHD movies with 4k/HDR10 plus 1080P/DV and there is Netflix with DV). The sporadic movies with HDR10+ show marginal improvement over HDR10 doing side-by-side comparisons. Dolby Laboratories killed DV for mass deployment which can't be blamed to Zidoo (or other media player manufacturers).
    - The value/money ratio for Z9S is really excellent. It is very well documented by Zidoo what the various higher models do offer, going for a more expensive model is a personal choice for a more advanced/functional better looking physical box.
    - The only exception is X20 Pro which in my perception could not really keep its full promise as advertised, you are right there. It should have been what UHD2000 4K now looks to be and I don't feel that one is overrated at 750 Euro's with the new design but once more offering good value/money like Z9S. This provided one really uses the RCA/XLR Analog Audio output capability and assuming Zidoo Music Player finally will meet matching high end audio product standards.

    @mirror
    My top goal for Zidoo Music Player is support for raw DSD output via HDMI. Obviously this requires an Android driver to be written for it. No idea if the RTD1296 based SOC can do this but obviously MCH DSD via HDMI is standard wise no problem as SACD disc players do so for many years already. My good old Pioneer BDP-LX55 still does and also has an integrated high end DAC for 2CH analog output next to this. The next generation Pioneer BDP-LX58 player in fact uses SABRE ESS for 2CH Analog output similar to UHD2000 4K.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2019
  16. futeko.com

    futeko.com Member

    X20 Pro / UHD2000 have ESS DAC so much better audio than X10/Z10, dual HDD, excellent Bluetooth remote, better interface, dual HDMI, XLR ports, pro PSUs, great design in fitting with Hi-Fi setups. If you want the best then it costs..

    Re HDR10+, it is possible on old hardware. Devices (TVs) are receiving firmware upgrades to enable it. Whether it comes to Realtek boxes though I have no idea. The point I was trying to make is that waiting for a new SOC with supposed support for HDR10+ or Dolby Vision is likely to be a long and possibly fruitless wait.

    The fake Oppo box looks good on paper but it is very likely to receive minimal ongoing support, has a very basic file browser interface, no internal HDDs, possible customs problems with imports (no licences, no CE/FCC), and probably dubious hardware quality (and variable, if it becomes popular many factories in China will start producing it so you won't know what you're buying).
     
    gymnos likes this.
  17. zarathoestra

    zarathoestra Member

    Still good luck with it , your'e gonna need it and won't sell a lot of it. After the x20 pro i'm done with it and the best ????:rolleyes::rolleyes:
     
  18. zarathoestra

    zarathoestra Member

    I agree on your view for the Z9s all the rest is promo talk. If the player should do DV and HRD 10+ you should talk whole differently and say how good it is just like the fake oppo box. The lack of it makes one ignorant to see that DV and HDR10+ are nice step-ups to the static HDR10 If you gave the right material to play it of corse.
    And really android 7 how long are they planning to stay on that prehistoric operating system ? If you compare it with smartphones at the price of 750 euro you get at least two major upgrades for your operating systems ...
     
  19. futeko.com

    futeko.com Member

    It's fairly irrelevant for a media box which Android operating system version it is running. Picture/audio quality and the quality of the media interface are what matter.
     
  20. zarathoestra

    zarathoestra Member

    Well if you will run all those apps and android tv you have to run it a lot higher then android 7 otherwise it will be like now : zero stabililty . If you are consequent if it's implemented make it work otherwise delete it and don't make false promises.
    So they implement google chrome and android just for fun then ... fooling the customer i call it..
     

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