New firmware v2.0.5 version(beta) for ZIDOO X9S release

You can repeat this as much as you wish but the results will be the same. I have tested Sony, Samsung, and LG sets with the X9s and X8 boxes. I have played files on the TVs versus on the X9s. The LGs band more with the X8 and X9s than internally played files is true. Yet, this somehow does not excuse the fact that the Sony and Samsung could handle the X9s and X8 inputs much better. The files play the same onboard the TV as they do on the X9s and X8. Your problem is you have a sample size of one TV and one brand. I have a sample size of 8 (mine and my lady friend's TVs) with three brands. The only fix is for LG to address it's image processing and HDMI handling or Zidoo to to adress the frame rate issue so you can run a setting which produces less banding on LG TVs. Which do you consider more likely to happen?

I have an Oppo UHD player and I have to do the exact same thing for the Oppo on the LG OLED C6 as I have to do to the Zidoo to avoid banding. Select settings on both Oppo and Zidoo that are needed to minimize banding on the LG but aren't needed on Samsungs. By your logic, both Oppo and Zidoo need to fix thier machines to deal with LG banding tendencies.

There is no need to keep posting the same information. I saw it the first time and it was read. It doesn't change my conclusion. As far as I'm concerned, this is a tendency LG TVs display over HDMI and in some cases internally that has been there for years and show no signs of going away any time soon. Sony and Samsung TVs seem to not display this sensitivity.

 

Hi Random Vibration,

What settings do you use please? I have an LG OLED E6, would you mind sharing?

Also do you know if any of the players using the HiSilicon V200 SoC instead of RTD1295 handle things any better?

Thanks in advance.

 

Bit depth - 12 bit input (because of banding, this I also have set on the Oppo UDP-203)
HDMI mode - Auto
Color Space - YCbCr 444
Deep Color - Auto
HDMI Range - Full

 

Thank you,

However, I’ve found that using “Full” on HDMI range causes dark picture on 1080p content. Setting to “limited” resolves this, did you not experience this?

 

Thats a function of your TV settings as well as the Zidoo.

 

Thanks I’ll check the TV settings.

 

What I tried was stated in the orignal post so I don't know what this other unit will result in. I only have Realtek and Amlogic based TV boxes at hand. I can say I have seen similar on the Amlogic box I have. Banding.

The LG C6 I have is the first LG (and only) I ever owned. If it wasn't for OLED panels, I would've never bought an LG. I like my C6 very much but never worried as much about HDMI settings before I bought one.

 

I have the same display... HDMI Range limited and Auto everything else will "appear to" give the best results... but even though the video is encoded at YCbCr 4:2:0 @ 10bit... the player will change it to YCbCr 4:4:4 at 12bit... and the frame rate will be changed to 23.981...

The above results have nothing to do with how LG processes an HDMI signal, but rather what the X9S is doing to the source before it gets to the the display.

 

litlgi74, how do you command TV to show those "technical info" ?
(mine, as in signature, is a B6, but hope it will be able also!)

TIA!

 

The green info on the bottom is from an HDFury Vertex... I got the unit to help me figure out why my OLED was acting up... Turns out its the X9S behaving badly.

 

I tested at a friends house and he has a C7. Banding seems to be less if not existent. It’s possible this is just an issue with LGs image processor.

 

It doesn't change the fact that the x9s is changing the source signal before it gets to the C7... The C7 may just be using "better post processing" to cover up the problems that other OLED versions and other displays can not.

 

Believe what you wish but I don't see banding issues when I move a Zidoo box off an LG and onto a Samsung or Sony (UHD TVs and HD TVs), the banding goes away. What you believe doesn't matter when they clash with repeatable observation. Have a good day.

It is common for all HDMI devices to override user settings if they create a non-supported configuration. It's actually part of the specification regarding handshaking. What is supported at the TV and what is supported at the player will determine what the output will actually be. If a reciever is in the middle, it also will determine what is output. Everything in the chain is respected.

Zidoo is following the HDMI specification just as LG, Sony, Samsung, Visio, Oppo, Panasonic, etc are. What you set isn't necessarily what you get. That is just the way it works. If your TV accepts anything readily, user settings will be adhered to strickly. If not, a substitute will be selected for you or you will get no output.

 

Most people should avoid full because unless you set your TV to high (vs low for limited) and your TV is professionally calibrated for full, the image will be too dark and you will have black crushing.

 

I'm trying to help by posting what I am seeing on my configuration. I'm not posting the same information. I've posted about banding, screen flashing black, DVDs displaying in the wrong aspect ratio, frame rate issues and stuttering. The more data users post, the more it helps.

And even if what you are saying is true (I don't believe it is), what is more likely - LG improving their HDMI processing or the Ziddo fixing their firmware frame rate issue? Well, considering it's been 1 1/2 years and the Zidoo still has frame rate bugs, I'd say neither is very likely. Of course, if Zidoo actually gave us some optimistic news about this on their own forums, maybe we would have a better idea of what's coming for fixes. As it stands, none of know what they are working on or what they can do to help with some of these bugs/issues.

I do not believe it is my LG that is at fault here - it is the Zidoo, which is clearly not outputting correct signals. People have posted the proof in pictures. Giving the Zidoo a pass and blaming our TVs is not going to help solve the issues the player has.

In the picture litlgi74 posted above, he's got the Zidoo set to:

YCbCr 4:2:0
10bit
23.976

yet it's outputting:

YCbCr 4:4:4
12bit
23.981

Everything that could possibly be wrong with that output is wrong - frame rate, color space, and deep color.

 

I may have to agree with @Random_Vibration on the issue of banding. In all likelihood, this has to do with the way the TV's processor is handling the input. If you compare the output video stream there is hardly any difference between 10/12 bit or YCbCr 4:4:4/4:2:2. It's on the displays that you are seeing the difference. I haven' t looked at RGB output, so can't comment on that now. The one other thing to note here is how the HDMI range has been selected on Zidoo. If you have it on Auto, the results would be different on LG/Sony vs Samsung. Zidoo outputs YCbCr full in Auto mode when connected to LG/Sony TVs. Zidoo/Realtek is interpretting HDMI/CTA standards incorrectly. Only sYCC601, AdobeYCC601 and BT.2100 officially supports full range for YCbCr.

YCbCr 4:2:0 is not supported at <50Hz refresh rate. That's why the output is being changed. Zidoo happens to select 12-bit YCbCr 4:4:4 as the default output. If you select YCbCr 4:2:2 in the settings, it will remain in 4:2:2 for all refresh rates.

The wrong refresh rate is something that Zidoo has to fix. It is probably a PLL division error or pixel clock error in the code for Deep Color mode. The other thing that Zidoo needs to fix is the HDR InfoFrame. As it is now, it is stripping the MaxCLL/MaxFALL. These values are there to help decide the algorithm for tone mapping on the displays. It's a topic for another day as to how many displays actually use this information for their tone mapping algorithms.

 

Here is a read out of the display info from the X9S (not hooked up to a display or AVR) at home screen (Auto everything) and then playing The Revenant UHD BluRay.


Everything in Auto (Zidoo Default)


After clicking on the video file...

 

Black flashing solved!

So I connected my new WalMart Black Web premium certified 18Gbps HDMI 2.0 cable, and it has totally eliminated the screen flashing black. It indeed was my old 1.4 HDMI cable to blame. It couldn't handle 4:4:4 deep color apparently. My LG has 3 HDMI inputs and all 3 accept 4:4:4 from what I've been told, so every HDMI port should act the same for me.

I would say anybody that is having the issue with the screen flashing black should try a premium HDMI 2. o cable, and if that doesn't solve it, try a different HDMI port. I'll update my earlier post about the issue.

 

This is all very confusing, is anybody able to tell me what the best settings to use is please?

Here is my setup:

Box: Zidoo x9s / FW 2.0.5 / native player
AVR: Denon x2300w
TV: LG OLED E6

Content: 4K HDR & 1080p movies / TV shows from locally stored HDD via USB.

Going by the technical details stated by Wesk05/litlg74... my understanding is that “auto” settings default to:

12bit / YCbCr 4:4:4

therefore... should this be ok? Or should I use one of the other preferences to bypass the “default” for best/better picture?

Thanks in advance.

 

If you want the best picture settings without (least) color banding... use auto. We just have to deal with the 23.981 (dropped frame every 3min 20sec) issue until Zidoo fixes everything or we move on to another player.