Discussion in 'HDD Media player(RTD 1295)' started by DELUCAS, Jun 21, 2018.
With the new HDR10 + standard coming soon with the Zidoo X Series range will be supporting it etc
is that a question ?
Well its still early days before the release via software update
And free so to speak rather than the Dolby Vision cost etc
So just wondering can or will the Zidoo X series get it / take advantage of it ?
it'd be a nice option. I assume it'll be up to whether or not the chipset supports it. Disney is a big backer of Dolby Vision... I wonder if Fox will drop HDR10+ backing after Disney acquires them.
Id imagine most chipsets should all support it its wether they implement it or update the firmware if easy to implement and of course free as such most chipset makers will add it .
But all depends on if the hardware can handle it ?
It is difficult to predict which technology will finally be dominant. Which one is technically superior is a minor qualifier:
- Dolby Vision has the advantage that it streamlines the movie production from filming to mastering and distribution so it is backed by companies who are in that business like Disney is.
- HDR10 and HDR10+ are more of an open nature and as such attractive for companies making end-user products like TV's (Media Players are relative small volumes but are in the same camp). They look mainly at mass production costs of which licenses may make up a significant portion.
- For broadcast TV and streaming TV services there is even a relevant 3rd standard being Hybrid Log Gamma or HLG for short. This is implemented in some TV's, AMP's and STB's already but hardly gets wide public attention. Still very relevant also for media players though. Here nobody is asking for it being a real mistake. My current TV (Philips) and AMP (Onkyo) both support HLG.
Now Samsung and Panasonic pushing for this whos next to join ?
Few days ago Panasonic for his TVs pushed OTA updated for HDR10+ even some TV sets from 2017 got this. So question is does Zidoo wants to implement HDR10+ support into his boxes? It would be nice to have some response from Zidoo about this. Thanks!
HDR10 aims to produce 1000 nits of peak brightness, whereas HDR 10+ supports up to 4000 nits. In addition, both the standards support 10 bit colour depth, which is approximately 1024 shades of primary colours. HDR10 and HDR10+ are two most popular standards, shipped in mid-high end TVs.
I don't think:
1) Zidoo will be supporting HDR10+ on existing products like the X8,X9s, and X10. They aren't very reactive to adding features of this magnitude in general and the chip predates HDR10+ support. It may be possible to add but I don't think it's coming.
2) HDR10+ is that popular. Dolby Vision has more disks and more streaming opportunities that HDR10+. DV has a larger installed TV base and more UHD Blu-Ray Players have DV than have HDR10+.
3) Zidoo will focus on HDR10+ until some future product.
4) HDR10+ will win the dynamic metadata HDR war. They were late and don't have enough manufacturers and studios behind them. It is the logical choice to promote moving forward since it doesn't require royalty fees to Dolby and isn't as involved a certification process but it still will loose. Samsung wanted HDR10+ to be a part of the UHD BD standard and pushed for it to happen. Then they turned around and withdrew from making UHD BD players, leaving others to support HDR10+ on disk. Panasonic isn't a big player globally and they are the 2nd TV supporter of HDR10+ from the TV manufacturer perspective. They aren't putting all their eggs into HDR10+ being that they also support DV.
I also think that we will not get HDR10+ with excuse that can't be implemented because of chip limitation. Well, that is totally is incorrect. Difference between HDR10 and HDR10+ is very small and come's to the metadata when and how is transmitted to the TV set. HDR10 have static metadata which is transmitted at the beginning of the movie and HDR10+ have dynamic which is transmitted at every frame. If you can read metadata one time, than you can do that at every frame also.
Usual all most everyone who is making some kind devices will force their clients to change hardware if new feature comes up on the market like this one, HDR10+. Excuse usually is that old hardware cant work which in many cases is not true. On that way they will increase selling of new boxes with new hardware and they will receive more money of course. What they will get with old box update? For sure no more money .... Panasonic did surprised me with their HDR10+ update even on TV sets from 2017.
We will see what Zidoo will do, time will tell.
I'm not going to pretend to know the workflow and requirements needed to incorporate HDR10+ into an existing Zidoo. If it were trivial, I couldn't see why they wouldn't make the trivial change. I suspect it isn't too difficult for Zidoo to do if the hardware supports it. The SoC supplier doesn't advertise HDR10+ support for the RTD 1295 or 1296 but does for the RTD 1395. I might go on what they state before accepting the ease at which it could be done.
Oppo also added HDR10+ to the UDP-203...some time after they announced they were getting out of the Blu-ray player business. That being said, an Oppo player cost a minimum of 549 USD too. They used a semi custom IC that they had some influence over its abilities.
Its simple HDR10+ via software up date added to the X or Z range would please many Zidoo owners if the chipset fully could be added that is and sell a few more boxes ..........
But Business sense Zidoo would make much more money on selling new upcoming media boxes in the future with the HDR10 + format in the new chipset etc as people would upgrade for it .
It's not practical for any enterprise to give away for free that which people would be willing to pay for. Particularly if that would involve resources and cost to incorporate. The X9s and it's RTD1295 variants are nearing EOL as a product. They are currently selling replacement products for them. I don't see Zidoo adding support for HDR10+ considering they still use Android v6 as the operating system and have no motivation to update it further. They are doing maintenance updates and adding minor features. They still haven't fix all the bugs.
Some fee needs to paid for HDR10+ (https://hdr10plus.org/license-program)
For Zidoo price would be $2,500 / annual
For Realtek price would be $4,000 / annual
If Realtek pays I guess everyone who buys their SOC could have HDR10+ support.
I guess there is no limit how many different devices you can make per license.
If this is correct than you can implement HDR10+ in all boxes, new or old-ones as for old-ones you will pay nothing.
Here we can see who already paid: (https://hdr10plus.org/adopters)
- Amlogic (Shanghai) Co., Ltd. (they are very similar with Zidoo)
- OPPO Digital, Inc.
On the list there is no Zidoo or Realtek so far.
Just some info about HDR10 implementation. Broadcom SOC bcm7251 which is used in Set-top Boxes (STBs) is designed somewhere around 2013. HDR10, was announced on August 27, 2015 and HDR10 Plus, was announced on April 20, 2017 (source Wikipedia). So bcm7251 designed before HDR10, he is just dual core cpu with out GPU. This year for bcm7251 some one made HDR10 support, I hired there is open source driver for bcm7251. I guess that's the reason why we got HDR10 working on all boxes. Like how said before if any device works with HDR10 it could have support for HDR10+ as well with out any problem. HDR10+ implementation is NOT cpu power demanding at all. So I guess this should clear any doubts about RTD1295/RTD1296 and HDR10+ support. Beside from all above, I do know a bit about all this as I am C/C++ programmer.
As for a bugs I did not see many ot them, everything which I throw into the box is working.
Why Zidoo should move from Android v6, its fine like this.
It simply is naive to believe the cost to incorporate HDR10+ is just a licensing fee. There are costs to develop and test the firmware to support the change. Then you have to support that feature on a once EOL product.
Incorporating a feature for one chipset isn't identical for another.
Since it's so simple, why don't you hack HRD10+ support for your device? You code...code it for yourself. It's so easy, you should be able to do it for yourself without paying the licensing fee.
Maybe your box works wonders for you. I'm happy with mine. But there are quite a few people still having jutter, frame rate, EDID/HDMI handshaking, HDMI CEC, subtitle, and other problems. They think their wants are just as important as yours.
HDR10+ will benefit Samsung and Panasonic users primarily. Making a more stable box will help various users.
Panasonic said that HD10+ is free and clients needs to pay only licensing fee. Its really incredible how you defending them, Zidoo and Realtek, maybe you are paid to do that. You obviously do not have Samsung or Panasonic TV so are jealous as you will not benefit from HDR10+. I never had any problems with frame rate, EDID/HDMI handshaking with Zidoo and my TV so you should probably replace your TV with good one.
You probably would have totally different option if your TV have HDR10+, you are very very jealous person, grow up. There are many topic on this forum which are not in my interest and for sure I am not running around and spamming those threads by talking about how those features are stupid and how expensive they are for Zidoo or Realtek. And then suggesting Zidoo or Realtek to fix or add something else which will benefit me. You are doing exactly that! For sure I will not running around telling people how our boxes are EOL (which are still not) and that we all should not expect any more support. There are some other good companies which are updating their EOL products with new features and bug fixes and I do not see nothing wrong with that.
Interesting. You hear that which you want to hear. I'm not offering a defense of Zidoo. I'm trying to give you a reality check since you seem to not grasp what will happen.
Your expectations exceed than which has been historically Zidoo's ability to perform. You should have some form of pattern recognition on what Zidoo has been able to accomplish and what they haven't and adjust your expectations accordingly.
It isn't about what my TVs support. You don't see me begging for Dolby Vision, HLG, or Technicolor HDR either. You know why? Because Zidoo never promised those when I bought my device three years ago. At what point should unrealistic expectations end? Three years. 10 years. 20 years. What is the statue of limitations on unrealistic expectations?
Furthermore, your reading skills are as lacking as your ability to judge and purchase a device that meets all your expectations. All Zidoo boxes, including yours had issues with proper frame rated cadence unless yours was made of angel tears. Maybe you've been so busy wanting that which was never offered that you didn't seem to know.
In addition, I didn't say HDR10+ was stupid. You use deception quite frequently to try to prove a point. Try being honest. I do question your intelligence in how you twist reality to suit your purpose at the moment. I didn't say the features were stupid. I'm implying that you are stupid generally. It's not stupid to want the HDR10+ added. It's probably not going to happen. You're acting like a spoiled over-entitled child. You can't win an argument on the merits so you start trying to distort what you're being told.
Just hold your breath and wait for the update...please.
Please, grow up!
Looks you are expert now for intelligence, WoW.
Should we call you a sir doctor?
On every forum usual there is one idiot, look like that job is taken by you.
You are running around and spamming this thread with out reason.
Your TV have no HDR10+ support there is nothing for you here in this thread!
Please, please go away!
You're the one who has some growing up to do:
1) Like a child, you hear the things you prefer to hear instead of what you are told.
2) You seem to think the world owes you things. You get upset when those things aren't delivered to you ask you expect.
3) You seem to think you have the right to tell people where they can and can not participate on an open forum.
4) You can't seem to wrap your small mind around the concept that whether it's HDR10+ or Dolby Vision (which my TV does support), I have no expectation that a $150 USD device issued three years ago will pick up support for it. Not going to happen. One can make an arguement for a $3,000 USD TV. Even a $1,000 USD receiver. Not a $150 android TV box that's three years old, has been replaced by a newer model, and does not have a large distribution. The more expensive, better supported, Nvidia Shield doesn't support HDR10+ either. The same can be said for Apple TV, and the Roku Ultra 4K. If you want HDR10+ support, just buy a Amazon Fire 4K and move on with your life.
Being an adult is about accepting the things you can't change. Try it on for size.
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