EDID thread (RTD1619DR players)

Discussion in 'HDD Media player(RTD 1619DR)' started by Markswift2003, Mar 18, 2021.

  1. Markswift2003

    Markswift2003 Well-Known Member SUPER Administrator Beta test group Contributor

    If you use a 10,000nit Dolby block in the EDID that will tell the Zidoo to output Dolby Vision, but not to tone map it. The Envy doesn't know what Dolby Vision is, so you have to tell it that it's HDR10 at 10,000nits so you set the HDR message in the Integral as below (this is the Vertex1 UI but I think it's the same - they are the same device inside):


    I'm not 100% how this works out with an Envy as I don't have one, so you may have to confirm with someone who has one as to how to setup the Envy.

    One of the differences with the Vertex 2 and later models is that you can choose to send this SEI based on what the input is - in the Vertex1 and Integral2 the HDR message is either on or off as there is just a tick box to enable it or not.

    This is how the Vertex 2 handles it (and it's a web interface so it's a lot easier to manage):

  2. maksi

    maksi New Member

    Hi Mark, the EDID 10,000nit with Dolby block is the one on the first page i presume....called Full + BT.2020 10000nit LLDV?

    When i play an HDR movie on the zidoo i should use 600MHz BT2020 HDR EDID of the firste page...or is that one the same as the preloaded one in the Integral2 called: No11 : 4K60-444 600MHz HDR BT2020 All Sound
    Or did you tweaked it :)

    I will set this custom edid up in the integral and report what it does....can take a few weeks because i'm going on a holiday.
    Thx again!!!
    Greetz Max
  3. Markswift2003

    Markswift2003 Well-Known Member SUPER Administrator Beta test group Contributor

    No, you don't need to swap EDIDs, the LLDV EDID is essentially the same as "600MHz BT2020 HDR EDID" with the addition of a Dolby Vision Block.
  4. maksi

    maksi New Member

    OK just to be clear, before i'm completly lost :)

    I use one EDID for LLDV and HDR => "600MHz BT2020 HDR EDID" of the first page?
    - Dolby vision movie with output LLDV: with the addition of a Dolby Vision Block (those are the settings you put in the vertex Gui) then it will output LLDV and the Envy will do all the tonemapping
    - Only HDR movie => what do i have to do so that the Envy does all the tonemapping??

  5. Markswift2003

    Markswift2003 Well-Known Member SUPER Administrator Beta test group Contributor

    Yes, just the one EDID.

    Thinking about it, I don't think the Envy cares what the HDR message says - it tone maps dynamically, so as long as it knows it's HDR, it doesn't matter - I assume it completely ignores the HDR metadata.

    So if you set the HDR > Auto on the Zidoo, with that EDID loaded, and the Integral set to send an HDR message (I'd still set it to 10,000nits), you should be good for HDR and DV - the Envy will see both as HDR and tone map accordingly.

    To be honest, you might not even need the Integral if you can set the Envy manually to HDR - but as I say, I don't have one so have no idea what settings are in there and whether you can do that - but I'd assume so.
  6. vddan

    vddan Active Member

    Quick question for the technicians:
    If I understood correctly an edid of 10,000nits, it is the projo that does most of the work and below depending on the value (4000/2000/1000 etc..) it is partly the projo and partly the reader (zidoo)!
    The best, given your experiences, 10,000 or less??
  7. vddan

    vddan Active Member

    A little UP!
  8. Markswift2003

    Markswift2003 Well-Known Member SUPER Administrator Beta test group Contributor

    Yes. Sort of.

    And no.

    It's a bit complicated.

    If you set the Dolby Block to 10,000nits for true Dolby Vision content, it gets spat out with no tone mapping because the source thinks the display doesn't need it. And this would work fine for a 10,000nit Dolby Vision display (which of course doesn't exist yet).

    However, if you're using the LLDV trick, then you'd have to tell the display that it was receiving content with a MaxCLL of 10,000nit with a spoof HDR message and of course the content doesn't have a MaxCLL of 10,000nits so the display wouldn't tone map correctly.

    Ideally you have a way of dynamically acquiring the actual MaxCLL of the content and sending that as an HDR message but even then you'd run into difficulties because often displays ignore MaxCLL and go off MaxMDL.

    I always recommend starting at 1000nits for LLDV and experiment, but 1000nits does seem to be the sweet spot.

    However, and here it gets interesting - your projector does DTM and with DTM you don't care about Max anything at all - it tone maps based on the content and ignores the metadata (or it should do!).

    So in your case, it's worth experimenting - set the Dolby Block to 10,000nits, spit out a non-tone mapped image and see how DTM works with that vs other methods...
  9. vddan

    vddan Active Member

    You were absolutely right, for several days I have been testing this edid:
    'BT.2020 10,000nit LLDV'
    and I start the JVC's FramAdapt and the image obtained is........a 122 inch diagonal OLED!!
    It's the best picture seen on my JVC......, every time I go down the 'nits' the relative picture becomes 'bland and dull'.
    So I'm going to keep the 10,000 nits edid on my zidoo and enjoy!
    Thank you again for your detailed answers......... have a nice day
    Markswift2003 likes this.
  10. Radi

    Radi New Member

    Hi Mark, thank you for the great input, I have read your countless posts here and on avs, keep up the great work!

    Very happy with my z9x and jvc n5, have some questions though:

    1.According to the previous post, what do you mean by "spit out a non-tone mapped image"? Tv led instead of player led lldv on zidoo?

    2. What is the best possible way to play sdr content via vs10 engine but not engaging HDR on the proj? I have been fiddling with sdr 600hz edit, but its gives mixed results depending on the source.

    3. Is there a way to implement vs10 hocus pocus to 3d? What is the best way to utilize capacities of zidoo when jvc is in its 1080 frame packed mode? Maybe some funky edits?

  11. Markswift2003

    Markswift2003 Well-Known Member SUPER Administrator Beta test group Contributor

    1. If you set 10,000 nits in the Dolby Block in the EDID that means you're telling the source it doesn't need to tone map, so it outputs a non-tone mapped image.

    2. With older boxes, you have to use an SDR EDID and set VS10 accordingly as you've done. For newer boxes you can output in VS10 SDR regardless of the EDID, but it means outputting VS10 SDR for everything. I would stick to Auto - if you want SDR content in SDR there's no point using VS10.

    3. In a word, no.
  12. Radi

    Radi New Member

    Ok, thanks, will try vs10sdr for sdr :>, I think I haven't tried that yet, dunno why.

    If I undesrstad correctly, auto plays sdr material via Realtek chip, right?

    I am asking about this since vs10 does much better work, realtek is fine, but not far from Shield imho; it is vs10 algorithms that do the magic.
  13. Markswift2003

    Markswift2003 Well-Known Member SUPER Administrator Beta test group Contributor

    In Auto SDR plays natively. There's no need to process it with VS10.

    Having said that, it's personal preference, so if you prefer what VS10 does to SDR then of course absolutely use it!
    Radi likes this.
  14. nutzer

    nutzer New Member

    hi @Markswift2003 ,

    1. is this edid thread also valid for z9x pro?
    2. does this mean that with zidoo custom edid, essentially no hdfury is necessary for DV on projector, if pj can be manually switched to hdr?
    3. (as I still have a sdr projector atm: epson tw5650), can i make use of a custom edid that tonemaps DV content brighter (lower max nits) for my sdr-proj? --> in MadVR, tuning everything to 100nits max, gives a much brighter and more vivid picture on my epson than z9x pro...

  15. Markswift2003

    Markswift2003 Well-Known Member SUPER Administrator Beta test group Contributor

    1. Yes
    2. Yes
    3. No - The EDID can only tell the source the display's capability, so in the case of an SDR display, that's simply what the EDID tells the source - that it's an SDR display.

    VS10 will then map all content into Rec.709. I'm not actually sure whether VS10 maps diffuse white to 100nits (which is the old standard) or 200nits (the new one) - I suspect 100, but either way it wouldn't really matter..
    nutzer likes this.
  16. Customi

    Customi New Member

    Hi @Markswift2003,

    I would like to ask your help.

    I've got a Zidoo Z9x two days ago (shipped with the latest firmware), and struggling with the settings. My stuff: SONY AF8 OLED TV (300 nits) and a YAMAHA RX-A1080 AVR. I using TV led settings with limited HDMI range, this HDMI range is match with the Sony TV settings.

    If I connect Zidoo to my AVR, the Dolby Vision content is too dark, but if I connect directly to the TV, the colors and the picture is perfect in any way. I don't use any custom EDID (yet).
    I saved the EDID file in both case, I will upload those files now (the .bin extension renamed to .txt).

    If I upload the SONY AF8 EDID to Zidoo and set it before connect to my AVR, the AVR gets only the DTS sound, not the DTS-HD MA, I think it's becouse the SONY TV itself doesn't support those hi-res sound formats. So it's not the solution, but the colors are right in this case.
    If I connect the Zidoo to my SONY TV and the sound passed via ARC from my TV to my AVR, the DTS-HD MA converted to DTS, and the Dolby TrueHD doesn't sound at all. :(

    So, the solution - becouse the hi-res sound formats - would be definetly connect the Zidoo to my AVR, but I would like to get the correct picture with correct colors and brightness, as I get it when I connect Zidoo directly to the TV.

    Can you help me what is the problem and what can be the solution?

    Thanks for your help!

    Attached Files:

  17. Markswift2003

    Markswift2003 Well-Known Member SUPER Administrator Beta test group Contributor

    Sorry - can't look at any EDIDs at the mo - I'm on holiday in Florida - you'll have to remind me in a week or so when I'm back in front of a PC..
    TV11 likes this.
  18. Customi

    Customi New Member

    I will remind you, thank you very much. Have a great time in Florida!
  19. Zaudio

    Zaudio Member

    Hi @Markswift2003, once you are back in front of your PC again,
    Do you have your original (as in the 'BT.2020 LLDV 100-10,000nit EDIDs' file above)
    BT.2020 1,000nit LLDV
    but with just HDR10+ added?

    I've tried using the one in your first post on this thread; but its your 'New' version, and it does not look good on my setup at all compared to the original BT2020 1000 LLDV, which yields excellent results.
    My new PJ does support HRD10+ so I'd prefer to allow that to pass through if I play anything with it.
    I did try searching for such an EDID, but could not find one.
  20. fancyclown

    fancyclown New Member

    EDIT I figured it out. I changed byte 6 to 40

    @Markswift2003 Hi! I found this thread when looking for ways to edit EDID files. :)

    I haven't found a way to decode the Dolby block in any of the EDID editors I've tried.

    I would like to edit the custom EDID [Sony A1 LLDV DCI-P3] on the Vertex 2. I would like to change the MAX luminance [nits] to 332 instead of what's there now. Is it possible to use Deltacast E-EDID and change the hex values somehow?

    This is how it looks now:

    I want it to look like this:

    Deltacast E-EDID with current values:
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2023

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