DMP-A6 and 6ch HDMI out experience

Hello everyone,

Very happy owner of a DMP-A6 in Tokyo here!

Only bought it for the digital side (all the DAC/analog part left unused) as a digital server/streamer wired and wireless.

I have tons of Multi-ch SACDs, DVD-A and DTS CDs I've been collecting in the past 25 years.
The main point was the multi-channel HDMI out audio that I had been looking for a long time.

Since no other device at a reasonable price point had one, I initially resolved to set up VOLUMIO on my RPi 3B+ and it worked well in stereo for a while but the instability of VOLUMIO and its frequent re-installations just wore me off. It's like using Windows 95 back in the days. For multi-channel, I had to bring my USB HDD to the OPPO and play the files via the GUI. That makes to separate setups for Stereo and Multi-ch, I wanted one device to rule handle them all.

Then the DMP-A6 came out and I took all the time needed to do my research before buying one.

I believe few people will be using the HDMI out for multi-channel.
In the YouTube reviews, they are often confused with HDMI video or I2S outputs.
Haven't seen someone even demonstrating the HDMI out, most of the focus is on the GUI, how to install the NVME and the internal DAC music tests.

Yet, I'd like to collect relevant (successful or not) experience back from you.

So far, I've been successfully playing these formats:

(editing the post to add more formats/methods as they are confirmed)

[ UPnP/DLNA files ]

Note #1: the UPnP profile needs fine-tuning to allow up to 192k / 24-bit, allow multi-ch (uncheck Stereo only), never Decode to LPCM. Setting max 2.82MHz has weird effects on DSD.
Note #2: everything will be converted down to 16-bit (streaming software limitation).
Note #3: My HDMI DAC is up to 8ch and 192kHz, that might explain the maximum 192kHz I see on streaming, you might have higher limits on your own equipment.

• Stereo FLAC WAV

Up to PCM 192kHz 24-bit OK, A6 shows PCM 192kHz 16-bit
Above, plays OK but at 352.8kHz, A6 shows PCM 176.4kHz.

If the USB DAC is used, there is no limitation except in the 16-bit conversion.
Tested successfully via Foobar 2000 with 88.2/96/176.4/192/352.8/384/705.6/768kHz @ 16-bit.
If played as a local file it shows as 88.2/96/176.4/192/352.8/384/705.6/768kHz @ 24-bit.

• Multi-ch FLAC WAV -> tested up to PCM 192kHz 6ch 16-bit OK

• Stereo and Multi-ch DSF files

(with UPnP allowing up to 192kHz)
Stereo DSD64 -> shows as PCM 192kHz 2ch 16-bit OK
Stereo DSD128 -> shows as PCM 192kHz 2ch 16-bit OK with a lot of lags for rebuffering
Stereo DSD256 -> shows as PCM 192kHz 2ch 16-bit OK with a lot of lags for rebuffering

Multi-ch DSD64 -> shows as PCM 192kHz 6ch 16-bit OK
Multi-ch DSD128 -> shows as PCM 192kHz 6ch 16-bit with a lot of lags for rebuffering
Multi-ch DSD256 -> shows as PCM 192kHz 6ch 16-bit with a LOT of lags for rebuffering

(with UPnP allowing up to 2.82MHz)
Stereo DSD64 -> shows as PCM 44.1kHz 2ch 16-bit OK
Stereo DSD128 -> shows as PCM 2.82MHz 2ch 16-bit, A6 plays at 176.4kHz with a lot of lags for rebuffering
Stereo DSD256 -> shows as PCM 2.82MHz 2ch 16-bit, A6 plays at 176.4kHz unusable with all the rebuffering lags.

Multi-ch DSD64 -> shows as PCM 44.1kHz 2ch 16-bit, A6 plays at 44.1kHz
Multi-ch DSD128 -> shows as PCM 44.1kHz 6ch 16-bit and A6 plays at 44.1kHz unusable with all the rebuffering lags.
Multi-ch DSD256 -> shows as PCM 44.1kHz 6ch 16-bit and A6 shows 44.1kHz but nothing plays, I think my OPPO never managed to play any multi-ch DSD256.

• DTS CD WAV/FLAC -> OK (DTS 5.1ch out) as PCM 44.1 2ch 16-bit

[ DTS CD files ]

• EAC individual track WAV -> OK (DTS 5.1ch out) as WAV 44.1 2ch 16-bit
• EAC individual track FLAC-> OK (DTS 5.1ch out) as FLAC 44.1 2ch 16-bit
• DTS decoded to WAV then FLAC (via Foobar 2000) -> OK as FLAC 44.1 6ch 16-bit

[ DTS CD ISO ]

Using EAC (WAV+CUE) // FILE "Titanic.flac" WAVE

• As a single WAV file + CUE (from EAC) -> OK (DTS 5.1ch out) as WAV 44.1 2ch 16-bit on screen and WAV 44.1 6ch 16-bit on app
• As a single FLAC file + CUE (from EAC) -> OK (DTS 5.1ch out) as FLAC 44.1 2ch 16-bit on screen and WAV 44.1 6ch 16-bit on app

If you FLAC this big WAV in Foobar 2000, it will decode DTS to LPCM then FLAC, file will be much bigger.

As a single FLAC file + CUE (from Foobar 2000) -> OK as FLAC 44.1 6ch 16-bit

Ex #1:
James Horner - Titanic.wav = 731MB (same result for single files added together)
James Horner - Titanic.flac = 652MB (idem)
James Horner - Titanic.flac = 710MB (when converted with Foobar 2000, DTS is decoded)

EAC+FLAC and NERO FLAC gave roughly the same results (652/654MB).

Ex #2:
Boyz II Men - II.wav - 593MB (same result for single files added together)
Boyz II Men - II.flac - 529MB (idem)
Boyz II Men - II.flac - 901MB (when converted with Foobar 2000, DTS is decoded)

So the rule-of-thumb is that EAC + FLAC (level 8) should give you the best result, either as a single FLAC+CUE or as separate FLAC tracks. However an external DTS decoder is required. Otherwise just convert to multi-ch PCM for more flexibility (down-mix to stereo, 6ch out as PCM, etc.).


Using ISOBuster (ISO/BIN+CUE) //FILE "Titanic.iso" BINARY
James Horner - Titanic.wav = 731MB -> The format is not supported


[ DVD-Audio files ]

• AOB files (from the AUDIO_TS folder) -> not recognized
  
• MLP -> The format is not supported (as expected)
• Multi-ch WAV -> 6ch OK
• FLAC Multi-ch WAV -> 6ch OK (smallest file size)

[ DVD-Audio ISO ]
The format is not supported
Files must be extracted via DVD-Audio Explorer 2008.


[ Blu-Ray Audio ISO ]
The format is not supported
Hi-Res files must be extracted/converted via MakeMKV and DVD Audio Extractor.


[ SACD DSF files ]

• Stereo DSD64-> Native DSD OK
• Stereo DSD128 -> Down-mixed to D0P DSD64 OK
• Stereo DSD256 -> Down-mixed to D0P DSD64 OK

• Multi-ch DSD64 -> Native DSD OK
• Multi-ch DSD128 -> Down-mixed to D0P DSD64 OK
• Multi-ch DSD256 -> Down-mixed to D0P DSD64 OK

Down-sampling shows as PCM 176.4kHz on A6 and LPCM 5.1 176.4kHz on the OPPO.

[ SACD ISO DSD64 multi-ch ]
Will play DSD64 same as above, the ISO indicates 2&6ch, your A6 setting for stereo vs. multi-channel preference will pick the right one there.

Bonus: It's better to keep the Multi-ch SACD in ISO form as it will preserve the DST lossless compression and save quite a lot of storage.

• Ex #1: Miles David - Kind of Blue 5.1 is 7.22GB (stereo + 5.1 DSF) but 4.15GB as a DST ISO.
• Ex #2: Elton John - Yellow Brick Road (2x SACDs) is 14.15GB (stereo + 5.1 DSF) but only 5.92GB as DST ISO.

Additional bonus: when playing multi-ch DSD over HDMI, the player screen (or phone app) will show DSD 5.1 at the top-right corner. If you click on it, it will alternate with the stereo playback (DSD 2.0) while playing. That's one major reason to rip SADC to ISO instead of separate Stereo/Multi-ch files.

​

[ HDMI Handshake issues ]
On my BDP-205, either in DSD or DoP, the initial handshakes can be very rough and, although audio is coming out, it often drops/bursts/fails to play smoothly. I need to change files until a lucky HDMI handshake stabilizes the stream.
If I do that for too long, eventually I get no more sound on the BDP-205, and it becomes unresponsive to the remote control. I then need to power cycle it to get it back to normal.

=> OPPO won't fix their firmware (the company ceased to exist) but could the DMP-A6 have more settings/options for HDMI stability?

[ No HDMI initial silence setting ]
Another issue when switching over HDMI from PCM to DSD to PCM, it generates MAJOR audio glitches on all speakers -- as in "I'm worried for my speakers" sound bursts.

=> USB DAC has a start silence setting, could it be possible to have a HDMI start silence setting as well?


Maybe we could build a quick list of template status to explain what configuration works for you?

Target device: OPPO BDP-205 (HDMI in)
Format recognized: 8ch, PCM 24bit, DSD64
Max sampling rate recognized: 192kHz

 

A6 to Denon AVC X4700H. Successfully playing Native DSD64 2CH and Multi-ch from both ISO and uncompressed DSF. It shows as Native DSD on AVR. No issue at all since day one.

I mainly use HDMI out only for multichannel, for stereo I prefer my external DAC to my stereo amp.

 

Which external disc-drive is able to play DVD-Audio or SACD? Is it connected to the upper USB? How do you get this signals into the DMP A6?

 

From my understanding, you will only be able to pass WAV or DSD bitstreams from files out of the A6 digital outputs.

WAV/FLAC all work fine, the DAC/receiver will unwrap the data and process it, stereo or 6ch.

For DTS CDs FLAC, the A6 thinks it's all 44.1/16 WAVs, and will forward it as such. Receiver will do the DTS decoding.

For DVD-Audio, you first need to rip the MLP tracks (with something like DAD-Audio Explorer 2008) and extract the 6ch tracks with "Convert to wav + merge groups".
Then you can FLAC them if you want, no difference.

So you stay lossless all the way doing 6ch MLP => 6ch WAV => 6ch FLAC.

For SACD, you need a DSD file you can purchase online in HiRes shop, or you need to rip your SACDs to SACD ISO/DSF files (via a device equipped with the right MediaTek chipset and the sacd_extract software package) that the A6 can later read normally.

Hope it helps!

 

"device equipped with the right MediaTek chipset and the sacd_extract software package"
Which device is for this purpose suitable?

"For DVD-Audio, you first need to rip the MLP tracks"
I can't find an external disc drive, which is able to do that...

 

An updated list has been posted here: https://www.psaudio.com/blogs/copper/down-the-rabbit-hole-of-sacd-ripping-and-dsd-extraction

Some Pioneer, OPPO, Cambridge, SONY (incl. old SACD PS3), Arcam, DENON, etc.

My PIONEER BD-RW BDR-XD06U (BluRay UHD/4K reader) has always worked.

And just successfully tested another way to listen to 6ch via HDMI out: UPnP/DLNA!



It seems that LPCM will be converted back to 16-bit though, all 24-bit I sent over-the-air decoded as 16-bit on the A6.
Decoder is licenced from Plutinosoft LLC.

 

Is the EOS turned off? Maybe that is why the tracks get resampled.

 

...glad to see, that i am not the only one here interested in MCH-Playback through HDMI. This was my main reason for getting me the DMP-A6 as well!

I tried to start the same discussion with my post
http://forum.zidoo.tv/index.php?threads/mch-playback-from-sacd-dvd-a-and-bd-a-iso-files.97812/
but it seems that your Thread here has received nuch more attention. Let´s proceed the discussion about MCH Playback here!

Would it be worth adding Audio Blu-ray´s [BD-A] to the scope of this Thread?
Up to now i have only one Audio Blu-ray as BDMV Folder Structure on my NMVE-SSD but when adding the NMVE-SSD music folder to the library this Album is not imported. It would be interesting if you have experince with this problem!

 

..i tried importing a few DVD-A Iso files into the Library but unfortunately the corresponding Album´s do not show up.

I was hoping that this would work as easy like with SACD Iso Files.

 

It's verbatim in the streaming client info: 8/16-bit only

​

 

@mirror : You seem to be the guy with best connctions to the developers: Is this maybe something that is worth adding to the feature request list: Support of DVD-Audio Iso files??

 

That would likely mens EverSolo would have to become a registered DVD-A member and pay licence fee for MLP/DTS on these disc.
Same for BD-A, membership and licensing fees to get access to the master decryption keys.

Unless it's something a ZIDOO player can already achieve, it's quite a high bar to jump for a limited number of users.

They will probably stick to PCM and DSD files only.

 

I'm confused with DTS CDs...

If I read the original WAV (DTS-encoded) with the A6, it will recognize it as 6ch and send it as such to the HDMI out, and even down-mix it stereo on an external USB DAC.

HDMI DAC shows LPCM 5.1 44.1kHz for both WAV and FLAC versions.

My stereo DAC or preamp do not have DTS decoding capability.

So is the A6 quietly (secretly) capable of decoding DTS?

It's NOT. I made a wrong assumption (see 2 posts below).

 

I think it is in specifications. DTS-CD is simply supported in all common DTS variants which are plenty!
Went through a long testing traject for this with Zidoo/Eversolo myself.

 

That was my mistake.

I assumed that WAV -> FLAC from EAC and Foobar 2000 were equivalent. They are not.

1/ EAC will blindly convert to DTS FLAC.
2/ Foobar 2000 will first decode the DTS into 6ch LPCM then FLAC the output.

--

1/ Smaller files (generally but not always) but bitstream must go to an HDMI DAC that can decode DTS.
If you send this file to a stereo DAC, you get white noise noise + the spectrum analyzers/VU meters will only process the white noise as well.

2/ Foobar 2000 will first decode the DTS in 6ch PCM then FLAC them.
This can be played on any DAC (stereo dowmix with the A6 or external LPCM 5.1)


By FLAC'ing my DTS CDs still encoded, I saved about 2GB of storage space.


To make things even more confusing, the screen will report 2ch on DTS WAV/FLAC but the phone App will sometimes report 6ch.

 

And the DMP-A6 is nice enough to not make any judgement on the contents of a FLAC/WAV.
You can even UPnP/DLNA a DTS FLAC and will it be forwarded correctly to HDMI out > DTS decoder.

Basically I tested more or less everything digital on the DMP-A6 and everything worked as expected.

The main issues lie with the instability of the HDMI handshakes with the OPPO BDP-205 HDMI In, but I would probably have to blame OPPO for this.

So I'm officially keeping the DMP-A6 -- still had the option to send it back to Amazon Japan till March 11th -- because, as a stereo streamer via USB DAC, I haven't been able to fault it and, as a 5.1 DSD streamer, the issues are probably external.

If you have a Denafrips R2R DAC (like a Pontus II), set the USB DAC silence to 450ms, Native DSD and enjoy streaming up to 768kHz and DSD512!

Now... on the hunt for a good 4TB NVME to store everything internally.

 

Many moons ago when I purchased my DMP-A6 I equipped it with a Crucial P3 4TB SSD, formatted it in the DMP-A6 to NTFS, transferred my music and have had absolutely zero problems with it. Fully recommended.

 

Re the DTS question.

I've ripped all my dts-CDs and loaded them into the SSD in my DMP-A6.
DTS multichannel 5.1 playback is available as a DTS bitstream via the DMP-A6's HDMI connector to a DTScompatible AVR /processor and the AVRs I have all report the incoming bitstream as DTS.
Connecting a set of USB speakers to the lower USB connector on the back of the DMP-A6 gives PCM 44.1kHz playback through the USB speakers in what sounds like downmixed stereo.

 

That is weird, all I get there is static/white noise from the undecoded DTS stream.

Would your speakers be able to decode DTS?
What brand/model?

 

Just a pair of cheap Logitech USB computer speakers. The DMP-A6 shows it as outputting PCM 44.1kHz