Zidoo Z9X PRO and Samsung 82q950r

Discussion in 'HDD Media player(RTD 1619BPD)' started by altcoinfanatic, Sep 22, 2023.

  1. Hello there!

    Currently I have a Dune dune hd pro 4k (no HDR10+ and no Dolby Vision support) connected to my Denon x6700H and would like to replace it. Planning to purchase a Zidoo Z9X Pro but have some questions before I make the purchase.
    I have a Samsung 82q950r which supports HDR and HDR10+ but no Dolby Vision.
    I would love to be able to play Dolby Vision rips on my Samsung 82q950r.

    I read about VS10 engine and according to me it maps the metadata from one to another, while adding it's own tuning. So in my Samsung 82q950r, which doesn't support Dolby Vision, it will map Dolby Vision movie files into the HDR10+ format that Samsung 82q950r supports. Additionally, it claims to expand dynamic range and improve black levels. It also allows you to override the color space from the standard 16-235 up to the full 0-255 (not sure if my samsung 82q950r can display that).
    Dolby's official statement is:
    “As a universal HDR playback solution, Dolby Vision VS10 offers unique value by combining the ability to play back Dolby Vision content as well as other HDR profiles based on the SMPTE ST 2084 standard through one integrated playback solution. "

    I am a noob (maybe I am mixing things up), please be gentle with me. The question I have are:

    - Is it correct that the VS10 will map Dolby Vision rips into the HDR10+ format that Samsung 82q950r supports?
    - Do I also need the HDFury Vertex 2 to watch Dolby Vision rips on my Samsung 82q950r? What happens if I play a Dolby Vision rip on a Zidoo Z9X Pro with VS10 enabled but without a HDFury Vertex 2? How do I connect the HDFury Vertex 2? Is it between my tv en Denon x6700H or after the Denon x6700H? Where should the Zidoo Z9X Pro go in all this?
    - In addition to the 2 above, do I also need to perform a LLDV hack as mentioned in the EDID thread ? Can't I just use HDR10+ instead of LLDV? If not, why would I need to override the EDID in order to use VS10? Can I use the LLDV hack without the HDFury Vertex 2?
    - Should I enable VS10 for all content to HDR10+ for my Samsung 82q950r?
    - Do I need to manually select HDR in my Samsung 82q950r to get VS10 work?
    - Do I enable VS10 player led or Tv led for my Samsung 82q950r?
    - Do I need a custom firmware to get what I want or is the default firmware fine?
    - Can my Samsung 82q950r enter HDR10 mode in BR.2020 at 1000nits?
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2023
  2. Markswift2003

    Markswift2003 Well-Known Member SUPER Administrator Beta test group Contributor

    To answer in order:

    1. No - VS10 will only map Dolby Vision to HDR10, not HDR10+. But that doesn't matter because metadata is still dynamically processed - it's just done by the box rather than the TV.

    2. No - Dolby Vision is converted to HDR10. However, if you were to get a Vertex 2 for example, you can actually view true Dolby Vision on your Samsung without any conversion (see attached PDF) - this is what I do with my Samsung flatscreen.

    3. As above, VS10 does not use HDR10+

    4. As above, VS10 does not use HDR10+

    5. No

    6. This is only relevant to using the LLDV trick and in that case you use Player Led DV. There is no way for a non-DV display to use TV Led DV.

    7. No

    8. As far as I know it can't be set manually (certainly can't on mine) - it needs an HDR SEI message, either from the source video or an HDFury device (see PDF)

    Attached Files:

  3. Thank you @Markswift2003 !

    So if I run a dolby vision rip with VS10 then it will show on my tv as HDR10 without needing a Vertex 2 or LLDV trick correct?
    Is there a real difference between HDR10 and Dolby Vision? I want to know if the differences warrants a price of a vertex 2?
    So playing native HDR10+ rips would be a better picture quality than playing movie rips with Dolby Vision rips with VS10?
    What if I play a native HDR10+ rip with VS10 on? Would that be remapped to HDR10 and should I turn of VS10 in that case or?
    What if I stay with HDR10+ rips, would that warrant purchasing a Vertex 2 or would the PQ be neglictable?
    If I purchase the Vertex 2, I assume I should turn of VS10 engine then or? And should I output all content as LLDV or better to output only Dolby Vision content as LLDV? What do you recommend? Will the Vertex 2 have issues/delays with my Denon X6700H?
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2023
  4. Markswift2003

    Markswift2003 Well-Known Member SUPER Administrator Beta test group Contributor

    Correct, you don't need the LLDV trick to view Dolby Vision rips, but it is somewhat satisfying to watch native Dolby Vision on a Samsung display that's not supposed to do Dolby Vision.

    Picture quality is always subjective, but if I'm honest, for a well calibrated display, I don't think there is any great difference between viewing a Dolby Vision, HDR10+ or HDR10 version of a movie. Yes dynamic metadata is all very clever, but in the real world there's bugger all between them. And DV has become a bit of a s**tshow these days. Not to say it's bad in any way, it's just not as good as they would have you believe.

    VS10 processes HDR10+ without using the dynamic metadata.

    VS10 is needed for DV, so no, you don't turn it off if you want to use the LLDV trick.

    The Vertex 2 will work perfectly with the Denon - I use them with both a 7200 and an 8500.

    If you do get a Vertex, whether you output all content as DV is up to you - you have to decide what looks best for you on your setup.
  5. If there is no great difference between Dolby Vision and HDR10+ version of a movie then I rather would not buy the Vertex 2 as that does not warrant the price, thank you. I can watch HDR10+ fine on my tv.

    Can you rephrase this for me please? Do you mean that VS10 remaps HDR10+ to HDR10 (in this case I should turn off VS10 correct)? Or keeps it as HDR10+?

    I have some other questions before buying the Z9X Pro (unrelated to this topic):
    - Can I connect my external 2'5 inch ssd through sata cable?
    - Does it have samba support (I want to access the ssd disk from my pc)?
    - Torrent client support (I want to download directly on device and store on SSD but use my pc as gui on it). Is there any guide on how to install and set this up?
    - Does it have the ability to download subtitles (automatically)?
    - Does it come with european (NL) PSU?
    - Do I have the ability to control the Z9X Pro through my samsung remote control?
    - Where can I buy the Z9X Pro if I want it now?
  6. Markswift2003

    Markswift2003 Well-Known Member SUPER Administrator Beta test group Contributor

    HDR10+ is just HDR10 with additional dynamic metadata - no remapping is required. If you apply VS10 to HDR10+ it will ignore the HDR10+ metadata, and process the video and output VS10 HDR10.

    1. Yes
    2. Yes
    3. Never used it.
    4. Yes
    5. Yes
    6. Depends on the Samsung remote
    7. I thoroughly recommend www.futeko.com


    I have no affiliation to them but their service is second to none and they ship pretty much everywhere.
  7. jehangir kh

    jehangir kh Member

    Hi Markswift2003
    I have got z2600. I have got Oled A84j and noticed when i play HDR and dv movies on 4:2:0 i have better picture quality , colors and sharpness as compared to 4:4:4 and. 4:2:2. But cant not play on 24 or 23 hz (framerate). I can only manage to play 4:2:0 in 59 or 60 hz. Is there any possiblity or custom EDID which can enable me play movies in 24 hz 4:2:0 yuv?
    Can you please help.
  8. Markswift2003

    Markswift2003 Well-Known Member SUPER Administrator Beta test group Contributor

    Sorry no, 4:2:0 is not a legal mode in the HDMI spec for 23/24/25/29/30Hz.
  9. jehangir kh

    jehangir kh Member

    Thanks for the reply.
    What can i do to get natural color/ picture quality like 4:2:0. If i use 4:4:4 color with 23/24 picture lose the sharpness , clarity and whitewash kind color, When i use 4:2:2 picture has too much warm effect.
    When i watch netflix or connect HDD via usb with tv i get really good /natural quality of picture. I do not get that in zidoo with 4:4:4 if i change setting RGB colors get to much saturated. i wonder if HD fury vertex may help in this? or any other solution with EDID ?
  10. Markswift2003

    Markswift2003 Well-Known Member SUPER Administrator Beta test group Contributor

    As far as colour sub sampling is concerned, 4:2:0, 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 are the same with the Zidoo (and most media players) because the content is encoded in 4:2:0 and there is no interpolation from 4:2:0 to 4:2:2 or 4:4:4.

    You're probably getting confused because of the framerate.

    60Hz, which can be output in 4:2:0 generally looks "sharper" but 23/24Hz which can only be output in 4:2:2/4:4:4 (when sub sampled) has a "film look" but that's because of the frame rate and motion blur and not the colour sub sampling. As a broad generalisation, subjectively, a group of 8 pixels represented by 2 colours looks the same as a group of 8 pixels represented by 8 colours which is why 4:2:0 works and is used.

    (4:4:4 is essentially the same lossless information as RGB)

    Full sub sampling can be represented by a block of 8 pixels like this:

    And output from the Zidoo like this:
    xskip likes this.
  11. Thanks @Markswift2003
    So everytime I will play HDR10+ to what setting should I change display/HDR? Is there a option for VS10 to just bypass HDR10+ content and have it enabled by default? What would you recommend to put on Display/HDR: Auto, mapping HDR10 or Dolby Vision VS10 Engine (Output HDR) or Dolby Vision Low Latency (LLDV, YUV422/444/RGB, 10/12-bit) for my Samsung tv and can can you explain the differences between the 4?
    Do I require a EDID for Dolby Vision VS10 Engine (Output HDR) and Dolby Vision Low Latency (LLDV, YUV422/444/RGB, 10/12-bit) to make it work?

    If I connect my 2,5' ssd disk (NTFS formatted) will it auto recognize my disk or do I need to reformat it again?

    What about my audio setup? I have a Denon x6700H with a 7.2.4 setup (speakers from Klipsch rp series). Should I put audio/HDMI audio to auto or RAW? (according to the video below it should be RAW to have the best available sound)

    Are you able to control your Z9X Pro with your samsung remote?

    I have purchased it yesterday thank you. What HDMI cable does Futeko provide with it? Is it good enough to connect to mine x6700H and show HDR10+ or should I buy a better hdmi cable (audioquest) for better PQ? (according to the video below the HDMi cable is crap)

    Last edited: Sep 24, 2023
  12. DennisTheMenace

    DennisTheMenace Active Member

    I really hope that Zidoo changes this soon so that Dolby Vision rips are not played by the VS10 engine if the TV does not support Dolby Vision. So that the native HDR is sent to the TV.
    I have many MKV files that use Dolby Vision as the first stream and HDR10+ as the second stream. When I play these files, Zidoo uses the Vs10 engine and therefore sends HDR10 to the TV. And not HDR10+, although the Mkv file supports Dolby Vision and Hdr10+.
    In such a case my Ugoos and old Z9X player sends the correct HDR10+ stream as it should be.
    Venmaster likes this.
  13. @Markswift2003 Not sure if you missed my message above?
  14. Markswift2003

    Markswift2003 Well-Known Member SUPER Administrator Beta test group Contributor

    Should be fixed in the next firmware... Don't know when, but should be very soon...
  15. Markswift2003

    Markswift2003 Well-Known Member SUPER Administrator Beta test group Contributor

    Sorry - too many questions in one paragraph..

    But basically wait until the next firmware for HDR10+ support on Auto.

    I recommend you trust your eyes and use the mode you like best. Always.

    Hard disc should be ok.

    Audio Auto is fine.

    I use Crestron.

    The HDMI cable that comes with it is fine. There is absolutely no difference in picture quality between a stupid expensive boutique cable and a cheap Premium Certified cable. Literally no difference whatsoever. Yes there are cheap shitty cables around, but not many.

    The only time to spend money on HDMI cables is for long runs, and even then you don't need to spend a fortune. HDR10+, DV etc does not require anything special as far as HDMI cables go - the only factor is bandwidth defined by resolution, refresh rate and colour sub sampling level.

  16. I use audioquest hdmi vodka and the difference in picture and sound is there.
    The sound is much more open and the picture is more detailed and sharper.

    As for playing dolby vision whit a hd fury it's the same wen the zidoo is playing dolby vision whit vs10 it's just hdr10 nothing more

    Samsung can't handle hdr10 dynamic only normal hdr10 so it wil not be a difference whit the hd fury
  17. Markswift2003

    Markswift2003 Well-Known Member SUPER Administrator Beta test group Contributor

    Sorry, but that's just wishful thinking (and marketing).

    Absolutely and categorically incorrect.

    I'm just going to let you ponder on that one for a bit...

    (hint, Samsung created HDR10+)
    geebolt and xskip like this.
  18. But you also have hdr10 dynamic (not hdr10plus) and samsung wil not except it

    Maybe try a audioquest hdmi cable wen its wil give you know difference you can send it back .but I'm sure you wil not
  19. Markswift2003

    Markswift2003 Well-Known Member SUPER Administrator Beta test group Contributor

    Maybe you're talking about "HDR Vivid" which is a bit of left field HDR format that nobody cares about.
    xskip likes this.
  20. Do I require a HDR10/LLDV EDID for Dolby Vision VS10 Engine (Output HDR) and Dolby Vision Low Latency (LLDV, YUV422/444/RGB, 10/12-bit) to make it work? Or does the whole EDID stuff does not apply for my samsung tv with denon x6700h receiver?
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2023

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