Potential issue with the Zidoo Z9x Pro and its removal of the full/limited range option?

Discussion in 'HDD Media player(RTD 1619BPD)' started by Jimbo Randy, Mar 1, 2024.

  1. Jimbo Randy

    Jimbo Randy Active Member

    @Markswift2003, I don't fully understand this, but can you confirm if this issue is a threat to image quality? I'll quote the text below and also link to the thread:

    https://www.avsforum.com/threads/pi...d-other-video-sources.3243456/page-21#replies

    "
    Information about zidoo z9x pro.
    Since in this player, zidoo developers decided to remove the HDMI range setting (full/limited), I made comparison shots and graphs to show that this is the wrong approach.
    If you look at the graphs, you can see that more or less the correct way to output HDR in the new z9x pro is to convert to DV, although the gradients are a little uneven, but not noticeable. With native HDR output the image is spoiled, on the blue horizontal gradient, and spoiled output gray gradient and output color gradients, (look at the bars vertical ). The worst variant, it is passing HDR through VS10, at the output we get a terrible HDR. where color gradients are destroyed in fact."
     
  2. Jimbo Randy

    Jimbo Randy Active Member

    This might be complete BS btw. Sorry for the clickbaity title. I just wanted to clarify with you since someone tagged you in that thread to answer. Not sure if you check AVSforum anymore ha.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2024
  3. Markswift2003

    Markswift2003 Well-Known Member SUPER Administrator Beta test group Contributor

    Sorry - Beach. Maldives... :D
     
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  4. Netmask

    Netmask Well-Known Member

    Sydney - Maldives 9000Km 19 hour flight. :(
     
  5. Markswift2003

    Markswift2003 Well-Known Member SUPER Administrator Beta test group Contributor

    30 hours including a 7 hour layover in Doha :confused:
     
  6. Netmask

    Netmask Well-Known Member

    Enjoy!
     
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  7. Jimbo Randy

    Jimbo Randy Active Member

  8. Jimbo Randy

    Jimbo Randy Active Member

    Oh I guess he's saying that this "issue" on the z9x pro is because the pro probably just locks to limited HDMI range. So for whatever reason this dude is claiming there is a "bug" in realtek players where you need to put high hdmi range on the player and limited on the TV? Honestly idk what he's talking about. It's hard to understand him. I'm assuming you guys are familiar with this person? I think a lot of the people who ask questions about limited/high are quoting things he says.
     
  9. Jimbo Randy

    Jimbo Randy Active Member

    Oh this is the same guy that that other guy quoted in the other thread where this was discussed. I guess all confusion comes from this one person lol. I don't get it. Why is he so dead set on this intentional mismatch on the realtek devices? Is he staring at test patterns too much and not actual content?
     
  10. Sanctrum

    Sanctrum Member

    You should correct the OP title... If the problem exists it's at Z9x Pro... not at old Z9X.

    Maybe DMDReview is right at his statements, but I do not have tools to confirm it. However I just observe severe picture black and colour tone distortions at some of my media if not forcing to use VS10. But my TV is old and don't have HDR.

    Zidoo Z9x Pro has many settings in HDR section which depends on current setup EDID. E.g. I have only 3 options to select others has much more... But DMDReview is not writing which exact HDR setting he has and is actually using at his tests...
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2024
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  11. Jimbo Randy

    Jimbo Randy Active Member

    It won't let me edit the title. Sorry about the typo.
     
  12. Thanh Nguyen

    Thanh Nguyen Member

    Movies are limited range excluded DV 5. Which the Zidoo autos back to full range when detected. From experience with Zidoo Z9x if you force set 0-255 while watching a movie that's limited.I recall having this setting on by mistake and watching Blade Runner 2049, scene where K goes to the roof in the rain as he exits the door, bottom right hand corner of screen there are bricks in the shadow. Having Zidoo set to 0-255 the bricks are completely gone and all that is left is pitch black shadow without any of the details. Limited range content force into full is crushed black, full range forced into limited is raised blacks
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2024
  13. Thanh Nguyen

    Thanh Nguyen Member

    This is the scene I'm talking about. If you do the mismatch setting with 0-255 on Zidoo and Limited on the TV. The whole bottom detail are gone.(But too lazy to go get my Z9X to take photo). And if you do limited on Zidoo and full on TV, it gets raised black level.
     

    Attached Files:

  14. Markswift2003

    Markswift2003 Well-Known Member SUPER Administrator Beta test group Contributor

    Thread title changed (and unnecessary hyperbole removed).
     
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  15. Thanh Nguyen

    Thanh Nguyen Member

    probably doing intentional mismatch to get raised black so he can see his patterns better ;) and then claiming it is better PQ :D
     
  16. Markswift2003

    Markswift2003 Well-Known Member SUPER Administrator Beta test group Contributor

    There’s something going on that improves the quantisation of code levels in blue using the Realtek engine when HDMI range is expanded (doesn’t seem to affect red or green so much, or indeed luminance itself which is odd)

    upshot is less banding in blue, but, and it’s a big but, you shouldn’t mix levels between source and display, and I think it may have to do with dithering in the display because different displays deal with it differently.

    Samsung for example do not allow quantisation selection and my Sony introduces quantisation artifacts which is worse than the blue banding.

    For real world content, the best advice is still to stick to limited range but I want to find out a bit more when I get home… :D

    upload_2024-3-6_15-47-56.jpeg
     
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  17. Sanctrum

    Sanctrum Member

    Oh. I see there will be some more backgrounds to be selected for Zidoo GUI. ;)
     
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  18. Jimbo Randy

    Jimbo Randy Active Member

    Thanks :). Agree with the new title. Interested in what you find regarding this "issue." I will keep my system matched in limited unless proven otherwise.
     
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  19. Markswift2003

    Markswift2003 Well-Known Member SUPER Administrator Beta test group Contributor

    DMDReview is dead right in that there is something funky going on, but it's not as simple as changing the luminance range - I think it's just a case of choosing the lesser of two evils - anyway, I'm back in the world in a few days...
     
    Jimbo Randy likes this.
  20. Duke Sweden

    Duke Sweden Member

    Where do you set zidoo from 0-255 to 16-235? I've seen that but only on a youtube video, never seen it in setting.
     

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