New firmware v2.0.5 version(beta) for ZIDOO X9S release

Good detective work. Can you do these tests on 1080p content too? Im curious to know if 1080p suffers from frame rate issues.

 

Another disappointment... 1080p suffers from the wrong color space and framerate.

Auto Deep Color and Color Space default to the wrong values of 444 @ 12 bit... Which in turn gets the framerate wrong as well. 23.973 instead if the actual 23.976.



One dropped frame every 5min 33sec.

 

12bit isn't a problem as it should send anything above 8bit as blank data. The incorrect framerate is however a problem. Just for comparison do you have any other players and can confirm that they send out exactly 23.976?

 

Well the results are disturbing...

From my Dune TV101 and my Pioneer Kuro KRP-500.

Although it gets the colorspace correct (444 only option)... The Dune does put out the wrong framerate... 23.973 instead if the correct 23.976 which the player says it is outputting... But in my many years of movie viewing... I haven't noticed any stuttering.



PS... I checked the same file on all of my Dunes.. Base 3.0, TV101, TV201, TV303D... they all play 23.973.

Not sure what to think.

 

Great job. Thank you very much for doing this. I have no idea what to do about this issue then. My TV freaks out when I boot my Zidoo with deep color set to 12-bit. Deep Color is enabled on my TV for that HDMI port. So I have no idea why this happens for my TV but not yours (or other owners). This may just be another push for me to send it back. I'm about to give up on this player, which makes me sad.

 

Your findings line up with mine regarding banding and stutter. At the top of page 7 I detailed exactly which combination of settings cause banding for me. I detailed it in an easy-to-read format so it would help the Zidoo team track down these issues, but I don't know if it's just going to get lost in the thread or if they even follow these posts. You and others have posted some very useful information in here. It would be a shame if it all gets lost or ignored (or deleted when they move onto the next firmware thread)

Auto doesn't put out what it should according to your findings, and 4:4:4 12bit (or 4:2:0 12bit) are the only modes I can use to avoid banding. But as you said, this introduces stutter in various frame rates. So there is no "correct" configuration for me with this player.

As it stands, this player is unusable for me. Besides not being able to play DVDs properly, or even being able to play a folder of consecutive clips, this player has several serious core issues that are preventing me from using it. It's just collecting dust, waiting for an update to fix these issues (that may never come). I think I have no choice but to get my money back from Amazon. Zidoo does not seem to be taking these issues seriously, otherwise they wouldn't still exist a year-and-a-half after launch.

 

Here's a video of the boot issue I have. Notice how the screen continuously flashes. Also it's hard to see in the video but you can see several flickering white dots around the logo. There's actually several diagonal rows of these dots flickering - the camera just didn't pick them up so great. Look right above the "d" in the Zidoo logo to see one of the dots flickering. This doesn't happen with my old 1.4 HDMI cable, only the new 2.0 cable I bought from Wal-Mart last week. This was the configuration:

HDMI mode: AUTO
Deep Color: 12bit
Color Space Mode: AUTO

Note that the cable does solve my issue with the screen constantly flashing black when set to 12bit color. Only now the screen acts like this when booting:



The screen flashes worst when Color Space Mode is set to Auto for some reason.

 

How much stutter are you getting?

Using auto mode for Deep Color and Color space (444 12bit default), I get a frame rate of 23.971 for UHD and 23.973 for FHD... One dropped frame every 3min 20sec for UHD and every 5min 33sec for FHD... Which in "some content" is virtually unnoticeable.

I got rid of my optical players many years ago... So I can't check the frame rate of an actual BluRay player.

 

Boot issue - update:

Here are two more videos I made today. Both use the exact same configuration settings. The first video shows no issues with booting:



The second video clearly shows the diagonal lines of flickering dots that look like something is corrupted (note this time there is no flashing, just the flickering dots):



Both were taken just minutes apart. Sometimes it boots okay, sometimes it doesn't. Here are the settings I used for these videos:

Switch frame rate and resolution
HDMI mode: 3840x2160P 60Hz
Deep Color: 12bit
Color Space Mode: YCbCr 420

I found it also happens with Color Space Mode set to YCbCr 422. Previously I didn't think it happened in 422. So it does happen with all color modes when using 12-bit color. Here are the settings that cause my boot issue (I updated my original post about this issue on page 9 also):

Switch frame rate and resolution
HDMI mode: AUTO / 3840x2160P 60Hz
Deep Color: 12bit/Auto
Color Space Mode: YCbCr 444 / YCbCr 420 / YCbCr 422 / RGB 444 / Auto

 

I haven't been able to pinpoint it to a particular time, but I do notice the stutter every few minutes or so roughly, but it depends on what's happening on-screen, so sometimes I don't catch it. I find it quite distracting when watching movies, especially since I'm sensitive to stutter anyways, and I thought I had left these stutter issues long behind me since my old Mede8er fixed their stutter issue years ago. It's so frustrating to be right back where I was years ago dealing with stutter again, on top of color space headaches and deep color issues.

It's too bad you don't have a blu-ray player to test. Is that device you're reading absolutely accurate? I wonder what a blu-ray player would read on that thing? But as you said, there is indeed a stutter so timing is definitely off with this player. I never get a single hiccup or stutter on my blu-ray discs with any of my blu-ray players.

 

10 or 12bit at 444 60Hz is out the chart for HDMI 2.0, those settings exceed 18Gbps

 

Hmm, so then this is happening because those settings are in violation of the "official" HDMI specs? The player is outputting the settings selected but the TV/HDMI cable is struggling due to the violation of the HDMI specs?

But here's a question - is YCbCr 420, YCbCr 422, and RGB 444 also out of spec at 60Hz?

If so, then maybe the player shouldn't allow those settings to be used. I think the player should not allow settings that break HDMI spec, as most users will not understand the specs or know what the limitations are.

Why is the player selecting 12bit then when selecting AUTO deep color, if it violates the HDMI specs? I ask because the same boot issues happen when I set Deep Color to Auto, but not 10-bit.

And the other issue with this is that 10-bit introduces banding issues in some color space settings. 12bit improves the banding, but it sounds like it breaks specs and causes issues. It sounds like even 10bit breaks spec at 60Hz, and the banding in 10-bit is a problem too.

So back to ... what should we be using? It sounds like leaving it on just one setting for everything won't just always work due to breaking specs for some frame rates and resolutions, combined with the AUTO modes not always working as intended.

I also wonder though why the other poster was able to boot in all modes without the boot issues I'm having, even though his settings were also breaking spec. We both have 2016 model LG LCD sets. Maybe his model or HDMI cable is slightly more tolerant?

Could you or somebody point to an accurate HDMI spec chart? That might help some of us narrow some of this down.

 

My box is set to 1080p 10bit ( native to my tv) 444 and full colors range. When using framerate and resolution auto switch all my video are playing fine 4K HDR included, I do not use material lower then 50mbps witch can induced small banding. Chess demo is gorgeous with grayscale background so define and rich, bright colors and no banding. HDR to SDR display good colors but lack the depth specialy in the scene of player in the big hall were the hall seem juste light up, flag become less sparkling and more orange but it ia a good reproduction.

 

So if I understand you correct your TV is native 1080p, not 4k?

I wonder what 4k owners should be using then when viewing 4k/HDR then? Many 4k clips I own are 50fps or 60fps. With clips like that, what exactly are we supposed to use, since it sounds like both 10bit and 12bit deep color breaks spec at that frame rate. But without deep color, some of those 4k clips have horrible banding. How are we supposed to view those high fps clips if deep color settings violate specs at that frame rate?

What about when watching 23.976 4k material? For that it sounds like 10bit or 12bit should be fine then? But then does the Zidoo properly handle switching to "in-spec" color space and deep color settings if "Switch frame rate and resolution" is selected? And how does that work when setting HDMI output to the TV's native resolution (2160p/60Hz for me) vs HDMI AUTO? There seems to be a number of ways to force the player to output settings out of spec, and some of the posts in here sound like the Zidoo is not always sending out the correct specs when leaving modes set to AUTO.

 

My TV is 4K, I use 1080p because when watching 1080p or 3D I switch to an other switch where my dreamscreen is set and my MCable are. But tell me is the UI of Zidoo is extraordinary in 4K.

My panel is 10bit.

http://forum.zidoo.tv/index.php?threads/interesting-an-informative.6812/

 

Oh, I see. Thank you for that link. Very informative and I'll definitely save it for reference.

 

On thing I noticed when using the settings you did above is that I don't get the boot issue every time. Sometimes I can start the player up several times in a row (3-5 times sometimes) and it boots fine, then one time I get the flashing and flickering dots like I posted. So maybe if you only booted it once in each mode that's why you didn't get the boot issue I noticed, since it doesn't happen every time for me. Maybe you would see it if you booted several times in a row.

It might also be that your cable or TV, for whatever reason, is slightly more tolerant, since it sounds like these particular settings are out of spec with HDMI 2.0.

 

So why does every option under "Color Space Mode" show the message "Tip: This option is not recommended"?

If HDMI Mode, Deep Color Mode, and Color Space Mode are all set to AUTO, and "Switch frame rate and resolution" is selected, what should the Ziddo player be sending out on a 4k TV for:

- 4k@24Hz or under?
- 4k>24Hz?
- 1080p?

And what does it actually send out? Because for me, the following settings:

Switch frame rate and resolution
HDMI mode: AUTO
Deep Color: AUTO
Color Space Mode: AUTO

Screen flickers and flashes at boot, just like I have previously posted.

So even with all settings on AUTO, it seems the player is selecting an output that is out of spec for HDMI 2.0.

I do not get this boot issue when forcing HDMI mode to 1080p/60Hz. So it might indeed be an HDMI 2.0 spec issue with deep color. But then if these settings are out of spec, why does my screen flicker and flash only during boot, but not afterwards?

I have no way of telling what frame rate, color space, or deep color my TV is receiving. I also can't find out if my LG UH8500 even accepts 12bit color. My TV only lists "Ultra Deep Color" in the menu option. It doesn't specify 10bit or 12bit.

 

Rerurn to the page I sent you and you will see the spec for HDMI. If your TV is HDMI 2.0 it will accept 10 or 12 bit, the TV will convert to your panel native bit. Some very low end 4K TV have 8bit panel but most TV have 10bit. I haven't see yet 12 bit panel.

 

But what happens if I do send a 12bit signal? Because banding is better with 12bit than 10bit on my TV with the Zidoo. And why does my TV freak out during boot with all options on AUTO like I posted above? Surely AUTO should send the best mode for my TV based on the content being played.

12bit looks better for me with the Zidoo, except for the booting issue.

From what I understand my LG is an 8bit panel that uses dithering to achieve the billion colors it advertises. The reps tell you 10bit if you ask but it's actually an 8bit panel, based on some postings on the AVS forum. My TV was their flagship UHD LED set for 2016.