This debate is infesting quite a few threads on the forum boards about audio quality: 1. Those who judge objectively by measurements and dismiss subjective arguments 2. Those who judge subjectively by their ears and reject the measurement data This derails those threads severely, and can sometimes be intense. Members who genuinely need assistance on the topic can be lost in crossfire. So please bring your debate here and return the peace to those threads again. You have the floor! PS: For those who believes in both like myself, we often times able to make decisions on whether a piece of hardware worthy an upgrade or not. We are the most informed from all the factions.
I belive in both, but people are so misinformed about what measurements matter and what they actually mean. I've seen people say that the Snr noise difference below 120db is inaudible. That's only true if you're listening to the line level signal. If you add the 30db of gain from your amp and use 100db sensitive speaker, that noise can be audible. Also been told you measure the two different items to see if burn in on one of them is real, that's just the wrong testing method to get valid results. Also testing the electrical output instead of the sound to tell if there's a difference in sound, come on. To test if there's changes in sound, you have to actually test the sound. You don't listen to electrical waves.
There is an interesting video introduction to SNR/ dynamic range ( they are slightly different but for our purposes). https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...tanding-audio-dynamic-range-snr-part-1.20847/ The only way to test ‘burn -in’ which doesn’t exist in electrical components btw, is to compare two identical units level matched and un-sighted one new one which has had extensive use. Re your last point remember that amplitude and time OR amplitude and frequency completely determine a signal. There is no ‘sound’ until those electrical signals are turned into variations in air pressure. Keith
Testing two different units is fundamentally flawed and that's not the way you would measure it, it's ridiculous to think so. You can't test 1 units burn in on another unit. Because you wouldn't be measuring that units burn in at all. You would have to test the exact same unit. Plus you would have to get a unit straight off the line that hasn't been powered on yet. Plus there's no way to get two units that are exactly the same, there are always slight variances... Yeah, you would have to measure those variations in air pressure, because that's what you actually hear. You don't hear electrical signals. That's also faulty science.
You could use the same unit, you would have to electrically measure the unit when new and then again after a period of ‘burn-in’ , I wouldn’t expect any of the values to change until components start to drift out spec at the end of their life. The only way to measure the ‘sound’ of two components is with a level matched ( to .1dB measuring the voltage at the components output) and unsighted. Keith
So if they can drift at end of life, why can't thee drift at the beginning? That's not the only way, and it's also the wrong way. You talk in absolutes when you have no idea what you're talking about. If you want the tests to line up with your narrative, that might be the only way.
Electronic devices usually have a bath tub curve in terms of failure rates they either fail at the beginning or at the end of their lives. keith
The parts can and do drift a little when they first get power. They can drift without failing, which is the burn in. If it wasn't real companies wouldn't waste the time, money, and space burning them in. It's also why you may have not heard a difference, because the equipment has anyway been powered on for days before it leaves the factory.
Blablabla..... You make me laugh by talking without saying anything... For me the only thing that matters is the music and the satisfaction I get from listening to it on a system that suits me aurally and It is not its technical characteristics that will change anything in this. Only satisfaction and my pleasure of listening count. But hey, to each their own...
Manufacturers soak test their product but that isn’t ‘burning in’ that is purely QC before dispatch remember the bath tub curve. Why not get in touch with a real manufacturer here for example or Mattias at RME he often directly answers questions on their forum and ask about their QC procedures. Keith
Doesn't that has to do with testing the production process, and not necessarily every unit themselves?
Guys can you recommend a good power cord that delivers a wide soundstage and interconnect cables that smoothen brightness and keep transients fast?
Just buy the most expensive then you can relax knowing that you have the widest, deepest soundstage and inkiest blacks known to mankind. Keith
