How to decode DTS-MA & TrueHD to 7.1-LPCM HDMI output?

Hi,
I bought a 9xs a few days ago. I am pretty impressed so far, but one thing is really driving me crazy: I want to play Bluray-ISO-files (100% untouched) with DTS-MA -tracks, but cannot manage to set up the 9xs the way I need it. I need the 9xs to decode the audio stream and put it out as 7.1-LPCM-Multichannel over HDMI to my AVR , since it's an older Denon 2807, that cannot process lossloess formats, but can perfectly process 7.1-LPCM over HDMI (that's how I had hooked up my PS3 and HDDVD-Player for years--> they did the decoding and just passed it over to AVR via HDMI --> perfect 7.1 lossless sound for me )
But no matter what audio settings I use, I always get only 2.0 LPCM :-( Logically I would assume that "Multi Channel LPCM" is the correct HDMI-out setting in the Audio-settings of 9xs. But also with this setting I only hear 2.0...The only occasion where I get more than 2.0 is when I put the HDMI out to "RAW" and use the "Downmix to 5.1"-option, but this - as expected -only sends out the lossy 5.1 DTS-core as bitstream.

So my question is: Does the 9xs even support dts-MA decoding with 7.1-Multichannel-output (NO PASSTROUGH!) at all?

If yes: What do I have to do in order to make it work?

If no: Is this planned for any updates in the near future?

Thanks!

regards

Chris

 

did you try with zidoo player or zdmc ?

 

Hi,
I tried both Zidoo and Zdmc player. And in Zdmc I tried with internal and external player. But it's always the same: I get only 2.0 PCM :-(
regards
Chris

 

@HaoSs: Can you please tell me if 9xs supports dts-MA decode & 7.1-LPCM output or not? Because if not, 9xs unfortunately is useless for me and I will have to return it.
Thank you!
regards
Chris

 

@freeroc
@spring

Please check this Issue and give us an answered. Is it possible or not with RTD1295 DD or can you inplent a function for this feature.

Thanks Lony

 

@warren: Thanks for the info! Setting it to RAW means Passtrough, so that the AVR will need to do the decoding part, which my older AVR unfortunately does not support :-(
Are you planning to add full decode for dtshdma/truehd to 7.1-PCM to the zidoo player or is this a hardware limitation of RTD1295?
Thanks!
Chris

 

PS: I am also wondering what the option "Multichannel output" is for, if 9xs cannot decode into Multichannel-PCM anyway? Seems also somehow odd to me that such a high end 4k streaming box with all kinds of ( more or less working) features including passthrough of the newest formats does not support such a basic operation as audio multichannel-decoding :-(
regards
Chris

 

Hi Zidoo team,
It's really disappointing you did not manage to answer my above questions within more than 10 days :-(
But I have a clear answer for you:

This is 100% clearly a BUG in the firmware of X8(tested) and X9s( tested) and most likely also X10( not tested)!

Why? Just take a look @the specs of the 3 devices on your website:
x8: https://www.zidoo.tv/Product/spec/model/X8/target/WhrwiBL1anZKKmVViAFMcQ==.html
x9s:
https://www.zidoo.tv/Product/spec/model/X9S/target/rRwtRFydZ4xKKmVViAFMcQ==.html
x10:
https://www.zidoo.tv/Product/spec/model/X10/target/xqwZ8QMj6ZVKKmVViAFMcQ==.html

For all three devices you state for "Audio Decode" the following:
Support HD audio(7.1ch) decode and passthrough Redesigns Native plattyer,Blu-ray better compatibility，Powerful subtitles ，Support MVC ISO,MVC MKV. Built in ZDMC

Conclusion: As it stands this feature is NOT working as advertised and must be fixed.

Please confirm and provide us information about when you are going to fix this.

Thank you!

Regards

Chris

 

Obviously you want DTS-X and DD Atmos to be decoded too to LPCM? It is simply not meant to be read like that. Never had a media player that did this for me, but some AMP's (not even all) can do this.

It is highly time for a new AMP if it does not include the desired DD and DTS decoders. It will probably also lack the correct HDMI pass-through bandwidth for multi-channel high definition audio (minimal HDMI1.3, HDMI1.4 (+for 3D/ARC), HDMI2.0 (+for 4K.60p), HDMI2.1 (+for HDR dynamic). So even if the player could put out MCH LPCM in high definition it will work only as stripped standard definition MCH LPCM (16-bit at 44/48 Mhz) which the 5.1 option does nicely for you (=SPDIF compliant).
The Denon 2807 AMP was a real nice product 10 years ago, but is heavily outdated today on digital aspects as good as it may still sound. Looked it up and it is HDMI 1.1 compliant only. LPCM always has far higher bandwidth requirements than DD and DTS native formats.
http://hometheaterhifi.com/volume_13_4/denon-avr-2807-receiver-10-2006-part-2.html
Replaced my very nice and expensive Marantz for the same reason, yes it hurts to dispose these very nice AMP's from the past (better builds than most units today).

How is it meant to be read: If the source has DD, DTS or LPCM in multi-channel formats then it can decode it from the audio stream and pass it RAW as output via HDMI. Any trans-coding/re-encoding between these audio formats is not included and adding it is not to be expected as this must be supported by the chip-set in Hardware and involves licencing for processing the actual various DTS and DD formats.

Looking at Blu Ray disc players then some (very) expensive models with discrete 8 analog out RCA connectors can do this for you. Players in the same price range as media players never do this for you neither. These high-end BD-players are meant to be connected via RCA to high end AMPs mostly with mono-block AMP's and separate PSU's per channel. That is a very different market.

 

@Nice Monkey: have you read the thread from beginning? I really try to give you guys an as clear as possible description of the bug, but I have the feeling that you do not really read what people are writing you.

1. I did not mention with any word the new formats Atmos or dts-X. And it would not make any sense, since those formats support more than 7.1 channels and of course my AVR would note be able to handle it. And of course those formats always require decoding on AVR side. What i am talking about are the HD-audio formats DTS-HD Master Audio and Dolby True HD, which have 7.1 Channels. I hope this is clear now.

2. HDMI specification has been supporting 7.1 LPCM transmission up to 192kHz/24-bit since version 1.0!!! And a LOT of non-highend playback devices have been supporting this over HDMI ( not analogue output!!!) since. Examples: Playstation 3, Raspi2/3 and even Android devices such as Nvidia Shield. So really absolutely NOTHING special! And although my AVR has only HDMI 1.3 ( and therefore cannot decode dtsMA/Dolby TrueHD), I have still been able to enyoy the HD formats lossless, meaning without any reencoding or downmixing. And since I do not care about Atmos or dts-X for now, there is absolutely no need for AVR-replacement if the playback device can decode to 7.1 LPCM. Hope this is clear now as well!

3. I have really been in the Home Theatre scene for over 20 years... and the term DECODE has always been meaning decoding, not re-encoding or downmixing. On the other hand: Raw-passthrough is nothing different than forwarding bit-stream audio: Which means no decoding is done at all, since this meant to be done by the receiving device. I assumed this would be clear to a vendor claiming a state-of-the art mediaplayer like X9s.


Quite frankly: before suggesting me to buy a new AVR, you should really do your homework.
And: I don't have a problem, if Zidoo says this device does not support Hd audio decode and 7.1 Multichannel output over HDMI. But then you should definitely not advertise it and should rework the specs on your website. But as long as it says there Support HD audio(7.1ch) decode Zidoo is claiming a feature that is definitely not working, so we are talking about a bug that must be fixed.

After (hopefully) clearing out the misunderstandings, I really hope for a clear statement on this issue from Zidoo team, because so far we have obviously been talking about different things :-(

Thanks!

regards

Chris

 

The minimal HDMI specs mentioned are the minimal requirements for Audio + Video using 1080P60 (or 4KP24) not pure audio. I have seen HDMI 1.4 struggling with DTS Master HD combined with 1080P60 12-bit color depth not even talking about combining it with 7.1 LPCM HD.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI
Read it at your leisure.

Your AMP according Denon specs is HDMI 1.1 compliant only, meant for typical DVD playback in that era (also matching the DD/DTS decoders included) and not HDMI 1.3 as you claim but that does not matter. You are entitled to ask and disagree obviously. Last comment by me.

For clarity I have no other relation with Zidoo than owning one of their products.

 

You are right about the 1.1 Hdmi on the 2807, my bad, didnt remeber right and dis not look it up. But anyways: As a matter of fact this receiver can handle 7.1 LPCM decoded from BD/BD-iso(2D&3D @24p) by PS3, Raspi3 or Shield(supports only 2d). And thats not on paper, thats how it has been running for years in my setup. So, instead of arguing over the abilities of my AVR, would you PLEASE be so kind and give a clear info whether X8/X9s/X10 is supposed to be able to decode 7.1 dts MA / Dolby True HD( not Atmos/dts-x!) and transmit as 7.1 LPCM Multichannel over HDMI?
I am just a customer, who spent a reasonable amount of money for your product and I have issues getting an advertised feature(the feature even exists in the audio settings as "multichannel output") to work. So I would really appreciate an honest answer from Zidoo team instead of trying to get rid of me by closing the thread.

Thank you!

Br

Chris

 

Sorry Chris.
Update my comment (I have no relation with Zidoo and I am not a moderator).

 

@Nice Monkey: OK, then thanks for trying to help here and sorry for the misunderstandings I wished Zidoo would just reply and clarify things...could really be done in a few minutes.

Cheers & Thanks again

Chris

 

In 9s official page (x9s specs) it is stated that it can both decode and passthrough:

"Support HD audio(7.1ch) decode and passthrough"

From here:
https://www.zidoo.tv/Product/spec/model/X9S/target/rRwtRFydZ4xKKmVViAFMcQ==.html

Passthrough means RAW, or bitstream. When audio is in RAW or bitstream format, then the av-amp processor performs the decoding of the various Dolby formats.

Audio decode means to convert a bitstream Dolby audio format to PCM audio. In this case, the media player performs the decoding of the various Dolby formats, and not the av-amp processor. In this case, the av-amp processor will not recognize any Dolby format, but will play the PCM streams provided by the media player.

This is quite common, even in old media players for various (old) Dolby formats.

You have 2 options to choose from, either 2 channel PCM Audio, or multiple PCM streams of audio, quite common for 5.1 audio streams (Dolby DTS).

So, for a 5.1 channel Dolby DTS movie, if you choose multiple PCM over HDMI, then the av-amp processor will receive 5.1 channels of audio, without the "Dolby DTS" labeling, it's decoded to PCM streams.


Indeed, there are settings in Zidoo x9s for 5.1 multiple PCM output for audio.

I did not choose 2 channel PCM output, I have chosen 5.1 multi PCM output, and all I get is 2 channel PCM.

This is a bug.

When will you fix this?

I need for all movie's, for all Dolby formats, just a plain and simple 5.1 PCM output over HDMI.

And I do not need 2 channel PCM downmix.

For now, despite the 5.1 options in Zidoo x9s settings, this Media player outputs only 2 channels of PCM audio, for every known Dolby.

This is just a bug.

 

THANK YOU costasear! This is pretty much what I wrote in post #9 and was assuming from beginning when I first started this thread some weeks ago. Unfortunately Zidoo's support has not replied to this for weeks. What really worries me: They seem to rather concentrate in implementing new, unmature features like the BR-menu stuff instead of making all the basic functions work.

@zidoo Team:

PLEASE FINALLY REPLY & CONFIRM WHETHER THIS IS A KNOWN BUG AND IF A FIX CAN BE EXPECTED WITH NEXT FW !

Thank you!

 

From day one this product has only decoded and output multichannel audio to PCM 2.0. If you need multi-channel PCM i recommend going with a Raspberry Pi 3 with LibreElec... I have one on my second older home theatre system and it works perfectly.

 

Only because there are other options ( I already mentioned the Raspi earlier) this does not change a thing about the fact that this is a BUG. And that it's been there from day one only makes it worse...

 

Chris, did you really check Nvidia shield TV?
Does it decode correct to 7.1 PCM audio?