EDID thread (RTD1619DR players)

@Markswift2003 - as I figured, LG OLED's "will accept YUV 4:4:4 and RGB signals and will internally convert those to YUV 4:2:2"

 

Hello Mark! I have an LG C4 tv and a Zidoo Z1000pro and an LG S70TR soundbar. I want to use the LG WOW ORCHESTRA sound mode, but as soon as I switch to zidoo, it turns off. The LG WOW Orchestra works during the TV show, so I think there is a problem with the zidoo settings. Thanks in advance for the ideas. EDID is not activated. Or it could be an HDMI problem, I'm thinking of the version number (1.4, 2.0, etc.)

 

Hello and good day,

I hope I have chosen the right category and am not asking too stupid a question

I am using a Zidoo Z9X with a RTD1619BPD processor.

I have connected this Zidoo player via HDMI to my Yamaha RX-A2080 AV receiver.

I then connected the Yamaha receiver to my Epson EH-TW7000 projector.


I have not yet found a suitable picture setting that provides me with a nice projector picture for HDR and Dolby Vision films. It is always very dark.

I'm getting desperate and hoping for the right settings.

I would be very grateful for any answers.

 

First off: you cannot playback dolby vision with your current hardware. There are sticks to make it work depending on the capabilities of your projector, but not getting into that here; there are entire threads on avsforum written about it.
As for Zidoo Z9x settings, personally in your situation I would set the Zidoo to "VS10 for everything" under the display settings. Make sure you have your HDMI range set appropriately for your projector also.

 

Run all of your chain in Limited range.

 

Hello Zaudio,
thank you very much for your reply!

I have set the HDMI color space to 16-235. I hope this is correct?

I have also set VS10 for everything (the last, lower selection option).

Unfortunately, the picture is still quite dark.

 

Hello Oldpainless,

thank you very much for your reply.

I can look up somewhere what you mean by that.

I have already set HDMI Color space to 16-235.

Should I set SDR 709 instead of VS10?

 

@Markswift2003 - Hi Mark,

What's the difference between these edid's?:

Bt2020 lldv edid, and Sony 8000h (lldv, hdr10)? (installed as standard on the Zidoo)

Playing back a test file (hdr10.p5.dvh1.cmv29.BL_RPU.mp4), the b2020 lldv edit does not dynamically LLDV tonemap on the fly (no visual changes) as where the Sony 8000h edid does all the dynamic tonemapping on the fly (visual changes).

Reason for asking (beyond the obvious) is that whilst the Sony 8000h processes the dynamic metadata (rpu) correctly, i'm getting slightly raised blacks/floor with it - hope that makes sense?

I've tried a few of the other LLDV edids, but so far the only one that seems to be processing the dynamic metadata correctly is the Sony 8000 edid, well, here anyway.

I've added my edid, incase you might be able to do something with that to get LLDV to work (correctly - rpu).

Here's the test file for RPU (dynamic metadata) I'm using (the Lake) https://fileport.io/6B2qDaxmq64f

Thanks as always.

 

First thing to say is that both EDIDs process the RPU correctly - they can't not do - that's the domain of the Dolby processor and not the EDID - once the EDID tells the source to provide Dolby Vision, it provides Dolby Vision and the RPU is processed.

But the parameters in the EDIDs matter regarding how that metadata is processed.

There are two important values to consider - T_MaxPQ (Maximum target in the PQ gamma curve) which is essentially the max nits of the display and the colour primaries supported by the display.

I don't know the parameters in the Sony EDID, but it's neither use nor ornament without knowing those because we don't know the max nits and we don't know the colour primaries. It was always a bit pointless having it there. That's why we have EDIDs in the new boxes with specific targets and BT.2020 colour - there was never any point in having one from a particular TV.

From what you say, I assume that T_MaxPQ in that EDID is quite low and the actual capability of your display quite high, so they are badly mismatched.

The BT.2020 LLDV one is one that I wrote and that has T_MaxPQ of 1000nits and BT.2020 colour primaries. The reason behind that is that if you're spoofing LLDV to a non LLDV display you can set the colour targets in the HDR message to BT.2020 to match the Dolby Block and likewise set MaxCLL and Max MDL to 1000nits to match it so the HDR10 processor acts the same as an LLDV processor.

With a display that supports Dolby Vision, likely MaxPQ won't be far off but the colour targets will probably be way off unless it's an LG (They tend to have displays with primaries close to BT.2020), so again, not much point using any custom EDID with a Dolby Vision display unless the custom EDID has matching parameters - that's why I always ask people for their EDIDs if they want stuff messed with - you need to match EDID to display.

So with MaxPQ set to 1000nits, the Dolby processor assumes that the display can handle 1000nits and so will only tone map above that and most content doesn't go anywhere near that.

In the new boxes I also provided a 400nit EDID (which is also on the front page of this thread) and that allows a decent compromise for projectors wanting to spoof LLDV because it means the HDR10 bit of the display tone maps to 400 and the Dolby processor above 400.

Raised black floor in Dolby content usually means that T_MinPQ is set too high for the display - again, we don't know T_MinPQ in that EDID, but from what you say, I assume it's above zero. T_MinPQ is the minimum nits in the PQ curve that the display can handle.

That said I've had a few requests from people to reduce T_MinPQ in their Dolby Block because stupidly the display manufacturers, who should know better, provide an EDID with a raised T_MinPQ when it's not needed and indeed produces raised blacks.

Bizarrely that EDID you provided is from your Onkyo receiver and does not support Dolby Vision... Probably

 

Thats odd re the edid i posted, as I saved it with everything on (amp and the TV). Correct re the amp, that's why I was intersted in LLDV.

I'm curious why when using the BT.2020 LLDV edid I don't see any dynamic changes on-screen (trim, contrast changes etc etc).

Is this edid any different/better?

 

Nope - it's identical to the first:

 

A setting in the TV? I think Sonys allow turning DV off - may be called enhanced something or other?

Possibly the Onkyo but I don't know how it'd do that - maybe connect the Zidoo direct to the TV and try again - that will tell where the problem is.

 

I'm still not sure why I get dynamic picture changes in LLDV player led (with the test file I posted above) using one LLDV edid but not any others.

The Sony is receiving a HDR bt2020 signal in LLDV mode, so I'm not sure looking for a DV setting in the Sony would change anything.

Re the Onkyo - the amp does not support Dv passthrough, which is why LLDV is a nice way around that.

Re my EDID, I turned off CEC on my amp and resaved my edid - attached.

Thanks again for the patience.

 

I assume because of the difference in T_MaxPQ compared to what your TV can do without tone mapping, but so far I don't know the DV capabilities of the TV.

What is it you see in the file that differs between the two EDIDs? It'd be helpful to see the file.

So what we need is your Sony EDID, not the Onkyo, then I can add the correct Dolby Block to the Onkyou EDID and you load that in the Zidoo.

 

Odd, doesn't matter what I do, if the amp is connected I only seem to get the same edid.

I connected the Zidoo directly to the Sony and saved the edid (so of course it won't contain the supported sound formats of the Onkyo) - attached.

If this does not work, I'll take some videos and post so that you can see.

As I posted above, Here's the test file for RPU (dynamic metadata) I'm using (the Lake) https://fileport.io/6B2qDaxmq64f

I can see dynamic L1, L2 (contrast, Trims etc etc).

Thanks again Mark.

 

Yeah, the EDID you get from the Onkyo is a mashup of the Sony and the amp. I'm surprised the Dolby Block gets removed though as Dolby Vision supports HDMI 1.4.

Anyway, your TV Dolby Block decodes like this:

DV Version: 2
DV DM Version: v3.x
DV Interface: LLDV 12-bit 422
YUV422 12bit: Not Supported
Global Dimming: Not Supported
Backlight Control: Not Supported
RED Primary: Rx=0.680 Ry=0.320
GREEN Primary: Gx=0.266 Gy=0.691
BLUE Primary: Bx=0.148 By=0.059
MAX/MIN Luminance: 670 / 0 nits

I was expecting Max Luminance (T_MaxPQ) to be higher, but no matter.

And you can see the Colour primaries are DCI-P3 which is a fair way off from BT.2020 so using a BT.2020 EDID would screw the colours.

So I've added that Block to the Onkyo EDID so load that into the Zidoo and you should be good - you get the video capability, including the correct Dolby Block, of the Sony and the audio capabilities of the Onkyo.

Didn't realise it was the old faithful Lake Test you were using - so yes, the RPU response will depend on the trim levels encoded in the RPU vs T_MaxPQ in the Dolby Block - if the value in the Dolby Block meets or exceeds the value defined in the trims, then there is no need to tone map so you don't see a difference (sort of )

 

Thanks Mark (as always!) - will test this afternoon and report back...Roast in the oven and watching the Battle of Britain.

Update - perfect! Thanks Mark - I, like most of us here, owe you one (again)...

And re nits levels on the Sony's - the software handles things very dofferently than LG's...in a much better way...

 

No worries - I love the interesting ones!

Glad you like the Sony and enjoy the roast! Soon be time to watch The Great Escape

 

@Markswift2003 - Hi Mark,

Just out of curiosity, is the new edid you kindly did for me capped on brightness? 1000nits, 10,000nits or to match the display reported nit level? Only ask as the Sony is execptional (in my view) at tonemapping to 1000nits (and a bit more looking at test patterns).

Hope the questions makes sense?

 

No, the EDID doesn't cap brightness (luminance), the TV does that by virtue of its specification.

The brightest your TV can go according to the Dolby Block is 670nits which means that any content with MaxCLL (the luminance value of the brightest pixel in the entire presentation) of 670nits or less does not need tone mapping.

Any content with MaxCLL higher than that will be tone mapped, so for example if MaxCLL is 1000nits then that 1000nits is mapped to 670nits and values below 1000nits are tone mapped progressively less as you go down the scale.

It's more complicated with Dolby Vision as that does all sorts of other completely unnecessary stuff but the upshot in all cases is that the brightness is always capped by the physical ability of the display and its settings, not the source.