EDID thread (RTD1619DR players)

Hello everyone,

is it possible to have an EDID SDR with BT2020?

 

While you can of course have SDR with BT.2020 colour, unfortunately it's not possible to specify it in the EDID.

 

Which device can allow me to watch an HDR film in SDR in good quality?

 

Pretty much all of the Zidoo models as far as i'm aware.

 

Any of the last two Realtek 1619 based series (DR and BPD) when using the VS10 engine to convert from HDR to SDR will do a fantastic job....

 

Yep. That ^

 

I've been using your EDID for a few days and it seems to work well.
Not sure I like LLDV for everything better than SDR. But that might be because the 5040UB is not the best choice for HDR anymore and anyway...

 

If SDR looks better then use SDR - always trust your eyes.

 

Ya, FWIW... with my Epson 6040, I also dabbled in trying LLDV and putting my Epson manually in HDR mode... but not for very long since this series of Epsons just have amazing SDR performance. So, I use the 300MHz SDR Rec.709 (HDMI 1.4) custom EDID and ouput all content via VS10 engine to SDR. I think it looks fantastic.

 

Bottom line is that projectors are essentially SDR displays - they can never reach even a fraction of the luminance level of HDR displays, and to be fair can't reach levels of SDR displays. But that's ok because that's not how projection is supposed to be. You don't want a 9ft screen burning your retinas out!

So it depends what does the tone mapping best and VS10 is very good at it, particularly in the BPD models.

Ok, you lose some colour volume mapping to rec.709, but you'll never reach the upper limits of rec.2020 anyway.

SDR rec.2020 would be a great idea, but unfortunately, afaik, VS10 doesn't do that.

 

Good morning,


I've been experiencing a random problem for several weeks that is getting worse day by day.


When playing a movie, whether 4k, hd, sd, I have random frame cuts of 3-4 sec (black screen). Sometimes the zidoo changes resolution or framerate during the black screen, sometimes not.

My zidoo z9x (latest firmware) is connected via HDMI to my Denon AVC A-1H amp to my Sony 65AG9 OLED TV.

Everyone is wired in HDMI AudioQuest Cinnamon 48Gbps.

I would like to point out that I have had this problem on a more recurring basis for 3 weeks, while my software and hardware configuration has not changed since August.

I tested the zidoo connected directly to the tv, no problem, the zidoo on the amp turned off in passtrough, no problem, but as soon as the amp is turned on (I'm in hdmi passtrough, cec deactivated, upscal off) the problem appears.


So either my amp is defective, or there is a problem with the EDID of this little world.


What do you think ?

Thanks

David

 

What you describe - the 3-4s of black screen and resolution changing would be exactly what happens if the EDID changes on the fly to a standard 1080p EDID from a 4K one for example. Not sure why the framerate would change, but that's possible too.

As to what's causing it, from what you say, it does seem to be the AVR (I had the Denon A1 Pro/Pro setup a few years ago and that went a bit mental...) and you've done exactly what I'd have done - connect to TV directly and test passthrough.

But you may be able to mitigate the issue by using a custom EDID - connect the Zidoo as you would normally do, through the AVP, and download the EDID (Settings/Display/Custom EDID > Save EDID) and then load that EDID back into the Zidoo and switch on Custom EDID (Settings/Display/Custom EDID/Upload EDID) so the EDID is always there.

It depends what the issue is as to whether this works or not - if the the Denon HDMI board is faulty and disconnecting the HDMI port then it won't help, but it's definitely worth a try.

 

Thanks mark,

I forgot to mention that I had already tried forcing a personal edid.

I just tested other HDMI inputs with zidoo and still the same problem.

I also reset the amp just in case but to no avail.

I'm good for after-sales service.

Thanks again for your feedback.


David

 

Actually, if you want to fully use the DV metadata, you must use an EDID that is the closest to your Display real peak capabilities. You should also send the same maxcll/MDL than the edid to your display so it can use proper HDR10 tone mapping curve (which is basically the same as using madvr HDR dynamic tone mapping).

Using a 1000nits or higher edid when your display is not capable of 1000nits is a very bad idea because Dolby Vision is designed to ignore the Level 2 trim passes when the edid is higher or equal to the RPU mastering display value(most movies have a 1000nits rpu). L2 trims are edited manually by the colorist during the grading process and it is basically the best thing about DV.

Some examples (the movie was graded to 4000nits on a 1000nits monitor) of how the tone mapping works in DV according to the EDID:

using the 800nits edid (mark edid is actually 774nits):
original HDR frame is 4000nits and the edid compressed the highlights to 780nits: https://slow.pics/c/uTejV9Ml (removed the L2 trims in this one for a fair comparison with the 1000nits edid)

• 1000nits edid (its 1037nits actually), highlights got compressed to 1067nits: https://slow.pics/c/Vugpps7R
• 400nits edid ( 371nits actually) , highlights got compressed to 375nits: https://slow.pics/c/cIq3Aaao
• 2000nits edid (2147nits actually), Highlights got compressed to 2200nits : no comparison sorry.

Now if i keep the L2 trims. As you can see the peaks are the same but the manual trims change the image a lot(intended by the colorist):
https://slow.pics/c/cIq3Aaao


now 1000nits edid, L1 only vs L1+L2 (no difference, trims ignored as explained earlier): https://slow.pics/c/Vugpps7R
800nits edid L1 only vs L1+L2: https://slow.pics/c/Db4lPgW0

 

Agreed, but for the most part we're talking about using this for projectors with probably peak nits of 100 or less but capable of tone mapping a 1000nit HDR10 source to 100nits better than VS10 can tone map LLDV down to 100nits (100nits is the minimum value allowed in the Dolby VSDB).

If you use a flatscreen then absolutely - match TMaxPQ to the display.

As far as the values of TMaxPQ being incorrect in the VSDB, that's simply because the VSDB uses a 5 bit word for this and therefore only 32 levels are available between 100 and 10,000 nits on an exponential curve. So for 1000nits nominal, for example, you specify 10000 binary and that is the same for any value between 965 and 1116 nits so to say the value is 1037 is incorrect - it's a range only. If you choose 996 nits you get 10000 binary, if you choose 1046 nits you get 10000 binary, exactly the same value in the VSDB...

It's actually (typically) a lack of foresight by Dolby because 5 bits are also wasted on TMinPQ and since that's pretty much always zero, we could easily have had an 8-bit word for TMaxPQ and even 10-bit if TMinPQ is assumed as zero and have a resolution orders of magnitude better than 32.

 

Right but I would never use an edid higher than 400nits for a PJ.
With a 1000nits edid, if the content is under 1000nits, it's practically the same as HDR10 and your PJ is doing all the tone mapping because the manually edited L2 trims are ignored and L1 is also not needed because Dolby vision thinks the content is within the display capabilities so it doesn't tone map.

Anyway, thank you so much for your Edid collections, they are really useful.

If that's not too complicated, could you make my C2 edid to be only LLDV bt2020 compatible please? I would love to compare tv-led with player-led using exactly the same brightness edid.

https://mega.nz/file/JXVG3I7T#nVc9MkaRLg8NJWrehC1dtayFtRGbpW-iwVo6GyHPSt4

 

No probs:

https://mega.nz/file/UG5n3Kia#Tg2w1OOKYcKyQ6u6uppA44qL0lRlZKyQIvYVTqAJ8dw

Again, you have to bear in mind the resolution of the primaries - Green x & y are 7-bits, Red x & y are 5 bits and Blue x & y are only 3 bits

 

many thanks!


EDIT
But why does it still says ''standard''


Interface: Standard + Low-Latency
Supports 10b 12b 444: Not supported
Target Min PQ v2: 20 (0.00063665 cd/m^2)
Target Max PQ v2: 3030 (896 cd/m^2)
Unique Rx, Ry: 0.70703125, 0.28906250
Unique Gx, Gy: 0.16796875, 0.79687500
Unique Bx, By: 0.12890625, 0.04296875

 

Standard is TV Led DV.

Damn - sorry - didn’t read your post closely enough - I’ll set to LLDV only shortly - just eating…

 

Here we go...

https://mega.nz/file/8HxHCAxL#6IiHHw4fuuNgWY9xqHx4SN5qAjHIUX7RlXyK2zAiMJE