Dolby Vision on Video Projector

Discussion in 'HDD Media player(RTD 1619DR)' started by xliv, Jun 16, 2022.

  1. xliv

    xliv Member

    Hi dear community,
    I'm sorry to post this as a new thread, as I'm sure the info is somewhere in one of the expert threads, but I failed to find it.
    I recently changed my Video Projector to one that supports HDR10+ (and dynamic metadata / tone mapping etc.).
    I noticed that when I play a Dolby Vision ISO from my Zidoo Z1000 Pro, it plays in HDR10.

    Is that correct? Should I do something either on the Zidoo side, on my AVR, or on the Video Projector to take a better benefit from the DV file?

    Many thanks in advance - feel free to point me to a thread where this is explained.
     
  2. Markswift2003

    Markswift2003 Well-Known Member SUPER Administrator Beta test group Contributor

    Yes that's correct - Assuming the file is Profile 7 (or 8), your projector will only play the base layer of a DV file, so that just means that the base layer of the DV file is HDR10 and not HDR10+.

    If the file is Profile 5 then the VS10 engine will convert to HDR10 since it does not have a compatibility layer.
     
  3. xliv

    xliv Member

    Ok thanks, if I understand correctly, all DV files will play in HDR10 on my projector.

    And what about HDR10+ movies? 1917 or Alita for example seem to have HDR10+ (at least that's what BDinfo says), but they also play in HDR10.
     
  4. Sledgehamma

    Sledgehamma Active Member

    Does the signal go through your AVR? If so, does it support HDR10+?
     
  5. Markswift2003

    Markswift2003 Well-Known Member SUPER Administrator Beta test group Contributor

    Yes (as long as you have Settings/Display/HDR set correctly - if you're not sure, use "Auto).

    As @Sledgehamma says, most probably it's that your AVR doesn't support HDR10+ passthrough.

    If you post your EDIDs I can check (do one with the Zidoo directly connected to the projector and one connected through the amp)

    To Download EDID
    ================
    Settings/Display/Custom EDID/Save EDID
    Change the file extension from .bin to .txt to post on forum
     
  6. xliv

    xliv Member

    Thank you both @Sledgehamma and @Markswift2003 .
    Indeed, HDMI goes through my AVR (DENON AVR-X4400H), I don't know if it supports HDR10+ passthrough (it does support DV though). I'm guessing it does not...
    I'll post the EDIDs (the one with direct link will take me some time as I need to access the back of the AVR...)
     
  7. xliv

    xliv Member

    @Markswift2003 with a little bit of delay, here attached a zip with the 2 EDID files, one with Zidoo => AVR => VP, and one direct Zidoo => VP.

    I tested the direct Zidoo => VP, and I confirm that HDR10+ content plays in HDR10+. So it's my AVR that is too old to support passing through this format, I guess. I don't know however if it's worth the upgrade (the VP has some frame-adapt HDR feature that simulates HDR10+ / DV, from what I understand).
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Markswift2003

    Markswift2003 Well-Known Member SUPER Administrator Beta test group Contributor

    Yeah - the VP EDID has the HDR10+ block but the AVR EDID does not - so the AVR doesn't support HDR10+ I'm afraid.
     
  9. xliv

    xliv Member

    Thanks, that's what I suspected. Is the upgrade of the AVR worth it? I'm wondering what would be the net gain of HDR10+ over HDR10 with frame adapt.
    Seeing the specs of the VP, it seems that the clear motion drive (frame interpolation) is disabled in HDR10+, which might be bothering.
     
  10. Markswift2003

    Markswift2003 Well-Known Member SUPER Administrator Beta test group Contributor

    Definitely not worth it - use Frame Adapt on the PJ.

    From your description I suspect this might be a JVC NZ PJ, and if that's the case, most definitely use Frame Adapt.

    I wouldn't touch CMD though - that destroys the image and makes it look like you're watching Go-Pro footage...
     
    xliv likes this.
  11. xliv

    xliv Member

    Thanks a lot for all your answers - yes it's the NZ9 (got a bonus at work, and went totally crazy...)
    CMD - I tend to like it in low mode. Higher destroys the cinema effect. But off, makes the traveling / panning a bit juddery to my taste...
     
  12. Markswift2003

    Markswift2003 Well-Known Member SUPER Administrator Beta test group Contributor

    Awesome projector - I've been toying with getting one of those but my projector is in a separate room behind a projector port and it needs some serious remodeling to take the size of those bad boys - I even did a 3D CAD to see if there was any way to do it without a sledge hammer and unfortunately not - but it'll happen one of these days..
     
  13. xliv

    xliv Member

    It is indeed a fantastic machine. It is a beast - the size and weight are impressive. The only issue I'm fighting with right now is the noise, in HIGH mode. I feel it's noisier than my previous projector (which was already great - X7900) in this mode. Or maybe it's because I'm now watching movies with very low sound, due to the presence of my 5 month old in the next room... So I'm toying with the idea to move it to next room and open a small window in the drywall...
     
  14. Markswift2003

    Markswift2003 Well-Known Member SUPER Administrator Beta test group Contributor

    That's exactly why I use a projector port - I'm very sensitive to the whine of projectors, even the quiet ones, so when I built this room the only way I was going to do it was projecting through a port.

    All I can say is do it! Especially if it's dry wall - my port was built with the room and the wall is breeze block (cinder block). It's lined with black velvet to stop reflections and the port itself is angled back 19 degrees and is made of projector port glass which has an extremely low reflectivity.

    And in the room, you can't hear anything from the projector..

    I also had to come up with a way to deflect the hot air coming out the front of the projector back into the projector room.. I used some 4" drain pipe sliced in half longways - works perfectly.

    PJ1.jpg

    PJ2.jpg
     
    crutzulee likes this.
  15. crutzulee

    crutzulee New Member

    Sorry to jump in on this thread, but reading it made me realize that my Denon 4500 does not pass HDR10+ to my JVC X570r...

    I'm still muddling through setting up my new Z9X as I migrated from a SHIELD/KODI rig in my HT.

    I'm using your gamma curve and built in EDID for DENON/JVC setups...I also have everything outputting as LLDV with the GUI locked on 23.9Hz.

    With this setup, am I correct in assuming that the HDR10+ limitation is a moot point as it is converted to LDDV? Is there ANY benefit to a file being encoded with HDR10+ under these conditions? Is the + somehow beneficial in the transition to LDDV or is it just thrown out?

    Finally, given my setup, is there ANY benefit to splitting the HDMI out of the ZIDOO and feeding the JVC and DENON separately?
     
  16. Markswift2003

    Markswift2003 Well-Known Member SUPER Administrator Beta test group Contributor

    Firstly your projector doesn't support HDR10+ so it's a moot point in any configuration, but yes, using LLDV means that the VS10 engine is tone mapping all content, including HDR10+, to 1000nit LLDV although not using the HDR10+ dynamic metadata.

    Although there are some very clever people who've successfully converted HDR10+ metadata to Dolby Vision RPU, there is no official route for this, but I really wouldn't give it a second thought - using LLDV on your projector (which is a year younger than mine) I believe you're getting the very best out of it for HDR content, and of course native DV content.

    No, I can't see any benefit on splitting the HDMI signal at all..
     
    crutzulee likes this.
  17. xliv

    xliv Member

    Wow that's a nice setup. I was about to ask "what about the exhaust, so close to the wall", but this is where you've put the drain pipe. That was my main concern - putting it close to the wall would block the exhaust and probably create a hot air effect in front of the lens. (if you could do a close up picture on that area, that'd be helpful, I did not exactly understand how you setup this part.

    And what about the black velvet - which reflexions did you want to stop?

    Final question - where do you buy projector port glass?
     
  18. crutzulee

    crutzulee New Member

    Thanks so much for your answer Mark!
    It's good to know that, even at my age, I can learn something new every day....

    ... so true DYNAMIC tone mapping only happens in our setups when the source is DV? All other flavours of high colour gammet are shown with a static tone mapping layer in LLDV?

    Thanks so much by the way did sharing your gamma curve..
     
  19. Markswift2003

    Markswift2003 Well-Known Member SUPER Administrator Beta test group Contributor

    The exhaust ports out either side of the front which I've always thought was a stupid design - I had an earlier JVC years ago and that very sensibly drew in at the front and ported at the side/back. So the front of this projector sits in the recess of the port and the exhaust gets deflected backwards through the gaps at either side.

    Hopefully this will give you an idea - I've shown the deflector on the left hand side only - as I say, its a short piece of 4" pipe cut in half long ways:

    upload_2022-6-20_23-19-47.png

    You want to stop any stray light entering the lens, so the velvet in the recess stops this. This is also why you angle the port glass backwards at 19 degrees.

    I can't remember the company I bought the glass from - but I must have just googled "Projector Port Glass" - there certainly seem to be a lot more people selling the stuff now though.. I used a 3D printer to make the angled glass holder.
     
  20. Markswift2003

    Markswift2003 Well-Known Member SUPER Administrator Beta test group Contributor

    Yes, that's correct, only true DTM with DV. But there's some secret sauce in the way VS10 works that Dolby haven't released in the public domain, and that does a damn good job with SDR and HDR sources too.

    I'm very glad the gamma curve works well for you!
     
    crutzulee likes this.

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