Dolby Vision BT.709

After long research and knowledge acquisition, I can say the following:

Apparently "BT.709" with RGB encoding is the “correct” way of sending a Dolby Vision signal to a TV.

It would be really great if Zidoo integrate the BT.709 playback too.

 

You might want to recheck your research on that.

The only way BT.709 plays a part in Dolby Vision is in the cross compatibility of the base layers in Profile 4, Profile 8.2 and profile 9 which are cross compatible with SDR (ie. BT.1886, ITU-R BT.709, YCbCr 4:2:0).

You may be getting confused with HDMI tunneling, notably employed by LG TVs.

 

Ah Ok. I understand. But I have a problem with BT.2020: All mkv's with Dolby Vision (also the test files) are too saturated. Especially the color red which we can see in human skin tones. Not always but in some lighting scenes / scenarios.

 

We have noted that colors are pushed / crushed on the Zidoo with Dolby Vision, but it isnt as bad as on the Shield. I’m sure Zidoo will nail it before Nvidia do.

 

The only time I've seen red push with DV, specifically LLDV, is when decoding IPT (Dolby's colour space for profile 5) in BT.2020 but your Philips shouldn't do that - it should use the correct colour space defined in the Dolby Block in its EDID.

If you want to send me the TVs EDID I'll take a look and see what the Dolby primaries are.

(Quick Settings/Other/About/Advanced Settings/System/Realtek Developer Options/Save EDID on USB Stick)

 

First of all, thank you very much for your information. I will send you the data as soon as possible. I'm just at work.

 

Hi there, late for the party, but I'm experiencing exactly the same problem (Z9x, latest FW on a Philips 55PUS7304 latest FW here):
Oversaturated colors (esp. reds) in Dolby Vision files, which are reported as BT.2020 on my TV. The same files play fine from a Sony X700 and are being reported as RGB 8bit (DV tunnelling) on the TV.

Is there any solution to this? Do you need my EDID.bin?

 

I have a Z9X and a Sony X700 also, and in terms of colour balance and saturation the Dolby Vision signals from both are pretty much identical. Certainly I've never experienced over-saturation from a DV signal from the Zidoo.

Presumably you have HDR set to "Auto" on the Zidoo and I'll infer from your statement that signals from your "Sony X700 and are being reported as RGB 8bit (DV tunnelling) on the TV" that signals from the Zidoo are not.

Therefore I assume that the Zidoo is sending LLDV to the Philips for Dolby Vision files and since the Philips is capable of both Player Led and TV Led Dolby Vision, do you have Settings/Display/Dolby Vision Compatible Mode set to "Priority LLDV.."?

If so, try changing this to "Priority Standard DV.." and hopefully you should see RGB 8-bit tunneled Dolby Vision coming from the Zidoo. Maybe the Philips is treating LLDV differently to Standard DV?

If you want to send the EDID file I can have a look and see if there's anything unusual...

 

Thanks Mark, for the quick reply!
I have set HDR to auto (no difference with DV10) and yes, the Zidoo signals are being reported as BT.2020 (not RGB 8bit) by the TV.
However, I have set the DV compatible mode to "Priority Standard DV (TV led)", still I see BT.2020 with oversaturated colors. TV led or Player led makes no difference here.
I include the edid file (chain Zidoo - AVR - TV, since the oversaturation is both present when the Z9x is connected directly to the TV and when connected via AVR).

 

First things first, nothing odd about the EDID except since you say its via the AVR, the EDID reports as a Philips EDID - usually it would report as the amp (unless of course it's a Philips AVR - don't even know if they do them!).

It supports LLDV and standard DV and there's nothing overly odd about the Dolby Block at all although max-nits is very low for HDR and Min Nits is quite high:

DV Version: 2
DV DM Version: v3.x
DV Interface: standard and low latency 422 12bit
2160p60: supported
YUV422 12bit: supported
Global Dimming: supported
Backlight Control: not supported, default 100 nits
RED Primary: 0.641, 0.340
GREEN Primary: 0.320, 0.613
BLUE Primary: 0.148, 0.043
MAX/MIN Luminance: 372 / 0.267 nits

I've imported the EDID into my Vertex - this will make my Zidoo act exactly as yours does and sure enough with Dolby Vision Compatibility set to Standard DV it will output TV-Led RGB 8-bit tunneled Dolby Vision.

However, the Zidoo incorrectly attaches a BT2020 flag to this signal and so I think that's what's confusing your TV and it may be that the TV is acting on this flag and remapping to BT2020, hence the odd colours.

It shouldn't do this, but then again neither should the Zidoo transmit the BT2020 flag.

Try setting Dolby Vision Compatible Mode to "Priority LLDV (Player Led)"

This will allow the Zidoo to process the Dolby Vision signal and output LLDV in 12-bit 422 correctly to your TV.

 

Thank you for your analysis. It's a Yamaha amp, obviously it gets overridden somehow by the Philips TV.

I've set the DV compatible mode to "Priority LLDV (Player Led)" and the signal is reported as BT.2020 12bit 422 by the TV as you predicted, but still the colors are oversaturated

I'm using the different Dolby Vision profile samples from makemkv, and for example the skin tones in the GI Joe samples are terribly red... (samples from makemkv.com/download/dvtest/)

I'm attaching a pure EDID from Z9x directly connected to my TV.

Anything else I can try? Can I make the Zidoo send the same data as the X700 somehow?

 

I'm still pondering this - at the moment I have no idea why the presentation would be different for LLDV between the X700 and the Zidoo - there's no processing going on in either case and as I say, my X700 and Zidoo are pretty much identical.

 

So it appears it's all due to the fact that Zidoo still incorrectly applies the BT.2020 flag to the DV stream. Since this behavior was reported in August already ("Zidoo Z9X" thread) and further discussed in the Beta 6.3.50 thread), I wonder if you could address - and stress - this to the Zidoo developers once more. Thank you!
At the moment, the Z9x is quite unusable with Dolby Vision some of us
I'm happy to test this as an alpha/beta tester, if that helps.

 

As I said earlier, I could see that as possibility for TV Led Dolby Vision if the TV was handling the Dolby Vision signal incorrectly, but not Player Led.

This is with the Sony X700 playing a Dolby Vision dvhe.07.06 BL+EL+RPU MEL file:

 

Mark, I see your point, yes, that's pretty strange. I did a specific image comparison and found that in TV Led mode, the oversaturation is there, but at least not as much as in Player Led mode.
Both are still quite oversaturated compared to the x700.

@Blue Stinger : I noticed you're using the same TV model as I (Philips PUS7304), what is your solution/setting here? How do you watch DV content with the Z9X on your TV?

 

Looking at the Product ID in the EDID and 2019 MY, I believe this is the same or similar to @Sledgehamma 's TV as well...

Edit - actually, although the EDID has the same Product ID (and indeed serial numbers!) and manufacturing years, they're not exactly the same - your colour primaries in the Dolby Block are different and max nits are lower, so definitely not the same TV.

 

Can you point me to particular file where this effect is most pronounced and I'll see what it does here...

 

Sure, try the "P7_FEL_GIJoe*.mkv" sample from makemkv.com/download/dvtest/ (I don't seem to be allowed to post links, they're rejected as "spam-like"...).
In Player Led mode, the faces look as if they've been sunbathing all day long during summer solstice; in TV Led mode, they were out for about 6 hours

 

Ah.

There's your problem right there!

Or at least part of it...

The Sony doesn't support Dolby Vision MKVs and certainly not single track dual layer files, so when you play that file on the Sony it's playing in HDR10 not Dolby Vision.

When you play it on the Zidoo you're playing it in Dolby Vision, and although the FEL is ignored, the RPU is fully utilised so this includes any trims including chroma weight and saturation gain etc - so you're comparing oranges with apples here.

The only way to compare the two players as far as Dolby Vision is concerned (or at least the easy way) is to use MP4 files, but no-one uses MP4 for disc ripping these days since the advent of Single Track Dual Layer MKV. MP4s seem to be reserved for Profile 5 Dolby Vision only these days and I'm not really sure why they're used for that either and the X700 can be a bit picky with Profile 5 MP4!

Having said all that though, if I view that MKV here on a Zidoo Z9X in Dolby Vision and compare that to both HDR10 from the Sony X700 and a Zidoo Z9S , it looks fine - there will be minor differences between the players as you'd expect, especially since two of them are using HDR10, but there's nothing stand out different at all.

Really you need to rip a Dolby Vision disc yourself with MakeMKV and compare the original disc on the X700 with the ripped MKV played on the Z9X - expect small differences because the two use completely different SOCs but there shouldn't be anything that pokes you in the eye.

 

Ah sorry, I forgot to tell you that I first remuxed the mkv to m2ts with tsmuxer in order to play on the x700 (I know it doesn't support DV in MKV). The x700 supports DV in MP4, ts or m2ts from a USB stick.

It definitely plays in DV on the x700, the TV recognizes the stream as DV and I can see that it's sent in RBG 8bit via the TV stream info, the colours look fine.
Played from the Zidoo (as m2ts or mkv doesn't matter), the TV info says BT.2020 8 bit and it's oversaturated.