Beta version v6.4.62 for Z9X/Z10 Pro/Z1000 Pro/UHD3000 release

Discussion in 'HDD Media player(RTD 1619DR)' started by mirror, Apr 19, 2023.

  1. damagedspline

    damagedspline New Member

    Is there a way to force 24fps for 3D (MVC/ISO)?
    I tried on multiple devices and my projector has extremely less 3D juddering on a PC@24fps as opposed to PC@23.97 and on the SonyX700@23.97 as opposed to SonyX700@24 - i wrote that correctly, it contradicts all logic.
    I am getting similar 3D juddering as on the Zidoo@23.97 as the PC@23.97 so I want to force the fps to 24...
  2. 3DBuff

    3DBuff Well-Known Member

    That makes no sense. The source is 23.976 fps in Frame Packing mode for 95% of all 3D movies out there. If you force Zidoo to paly at 24fps it will skip frame every 20s or so. If you want to try it just set up your resolution to 1080p and 24fps in Zidoo quick setup display options. Disable auto refresh rate and resolution changes and give it a go.

    You most likely have some issues with frame interpolation settings or your display is set to 60fps. Don't forget that all projectors use active glasses flickering at 60Hz or 59.7Hz for 23.97 fps movies. Alternating left and right eye at 60Hz each will not match to 24fps movie. You will end up with uneven frame exposure left and right no matter what. A lot better option is to use source 23.976fps and crank up frame interpolation to the max. If the projector is well designed it will produce high frame rates matching 60Hz glasses. The movie will look like shot in 3D at 60fps and give you better 3D experience in MHO but of course it depends on individual liking.
  3. damagedspline

    damagedspline New Member

    I agree that it makes no sense.
    My TW9400 has its FI set to Medium. High cause the image to look like a cutout diorama more than a 3D movie and add more artifacts on subtitles or on texted windows during the films. The PC is set to RGB8 output for 3D, the Zidoo was set as YUV12 but has the same symptoms when forced to RGB8.
    Frame lock at 24fps does not work for 3D on Zidoo (tested on iso) and always reverts it to 23.97 - I tested this scenario yesterday.
    My guess is the difference between PC, Zidoo and the Sony is the MVC parsing logic and transmission to the display, it might be causing frame dropping every once in a while per eye and so the device need to compensate, PC might be introducing a mid frame as it has 48 frame caching (using intel's media sdk) which might explain the 24fps. The projector supports upto 24fps framepacked and it handle the sync to the glasses regardless of fps.
  4. Piper2603

    Piper2603 New Member

    This will never change if we, as end users, support this by buying these products. Unfortunately, very few people recognize this connection

    For example, you can wash the dishes by hand, you don't need a dishwasher, but since many are too lazy for that, that will probably never change. Always remember how much you contribute to making the world the way it is

    You can't change the world from one day to the next. But what would happen if a manufacturer's products were no longer bought? The production and storage costs would sooner or later ruin this company, so this company has to change something in its strategy
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2023
    Radi likes this.
  5. 3DBuff

    3DBuff Well-Known Member

    I have an older Epson 5030ub 3D HD non 4K. FI on high gives me excellent 3D image. I really have to look for artifacts in this setting. Check everything about image adjustments in your PJ. Maybe it's upconverting to 4K or something similar.
    24 to 48fps from PC is probably just repeating frames.

    The sync to the glasses is limited to 60Hz or 59.9Hz. Active gasses to not operate at 24 or 48 Hz. The flicker would be unbearable. I had it tested with light frequency meter. No matter what fps you sent to PJ the glasses operate at 60Hz for anything from 24, 30 to 60fps. The glasses resync to 59.9Hz (or very close to it) when the source is 23.976 or 59.9fps. Anything else you hear about the super fast glasses operating at 400Hz is a marketing myth. 400Hz is probably the frequency where they go grey and can't produce on/off state anymore but the signal from PJ is always 60Hz. Out of this fact you get 3-2 pulldown per frame per eye on 24fps movies but not at the same time since left and right are exposed in opposite cycle.

    Check everything about image setting, quality and adjustments in PJ. Set the FI to High and enjoy 3D at 60fps judder free :D
  6. 3DBuff

    3DBuff Well-Known Member

    Confirmed but not a major problem since forcing 24fps output from 23.97fps source is not a standard practice and typically not beneficial.
    Zidoo plays 3D frame packing source in native 23.97fps format without dropping frames, distortion or any stutter whatsoever. All other processing is done by display devices.
  7. veldaskye

    veldaskye New Member

    Hello !
    This release of the version is useful to correct previous versions insufficiency.
    Keep it up.
  8. Cineast

    Cineast New Member

    can´t confirm that. HT Menu still crashes.... NFO refresh "on the way" till 4 months. this is a nice idea of media playing box - and that´s what it is - an idea of somethings on the way... i´m done with that bullshit
    Stonedeaf likes this.
  9. damagedspline

    damagedspline New Member

    IP is set to Fine, Image enhancement is set to Off. Projector does not upscale 3D to 4K. Still some judder when set FI to high.

    Try one of the following "torture tests" if you have them:
    Kong skull island 5:35-5:50
    Eternals 7:40-8:10
    Doctor strange 2:42-4:17
    Life of Pi - entire title sequence at the beginning - specifically 3:30-3:50
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2023
  10. Deano86

    Deano86 Active Member

    I am not sure exactly what you are seeing.. I have an Epson 6040 and 3D looks great for me with 3D Dynamic, FI set to High... but I also always have Auto Iris turned OFF.
  11. 3DBuff

    3DBuff Well-Known Member

    I'll take a look next time when I get a chance. Fully agree with @Deano86, not sure exactly what you are seeing. You probably need to make a short video with the phone preferably in slow-motion. Use one side from active glasses in front of the camera lens to capture one eye our of 3D.

    I have iris in auto or on. I don't think it effect judder or 3D in anyway.
  12. 3DBuff

    3DBuff Well-Known Member

    Looks like we hijacked this thread to Epson 3D thread ;)

    That's interesting. I checked those movies at specified times. Most of them are showing panning scenes across contrasted edges. Everybody can probably remember Doctor Strange first part the battle at the beginning with continuously folding buildings. I'm pretty sure you are seeing judder in 3D at 23.97fps as you pointed out. There is something wrong with your projector or the settings. I don't see any judder in FI High. The only think I see is 60Hz glasses flicker that looks like Black Frame Insertion popular in some displays like Sony. It breaks 60fps motion to more cinematic like shutters in old projectors in theaters. The motion is very smooth and sharp similar to 2D with FI on high or medium except for glasses flicker and darker image from active glasses.

    I've seen this issue briefly once on someone else Epson newer projector but didn't get a chance to investigate further. It looked like some setting was wrong on PJ FI.

    Do the factory reset on PJ. Disable any convergence alignment, go through everything one step at the time. Close one eye, do you still see it? Is it glasses timing or FI processor issue in 3D. Disable all image processing including FI and set everything to native cinematic cadence 23.97fps. Do you still see the same difference between 23.97 and 24fps?

    If nothing helps contact technical support. Maybe there is a firmware patch for it. Maybe the newer motion processor chips don't support 3D in favour of 4K? Projector could be working with 3D format but the motion processor is treating frame packing as one continuous frame introducing judder and artifacts. BTW I have zero artifacts on subtitles popping and going off with 23.97fps and FI set to high.

    It's all speculation at this point but I'm pretty sure Zidoo is not at fault. Your Epson EH-TW9400 is from 2020, @Deano86 Epson 6040 from 2016 and mine 5030UB from 2013. It does look like the newer model has an issue or some setting is triggering this behawior.

    Anyway, good luck and let us all know if you get it sorted out.
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2023
    Deano86 likes this.
  13. 3DBuff

    3DBuff Well-Known Member

    @damagedspline, I just though about another test. Send a regular 2D movie in 23.97fps to projector and force 3D conversion internally in Epson PJ. Do you still see the same judder? This would be good test for motion processor to see if it has issues with frame packing format.
  14. toasted

    toasted New Member

    Unfortunately I´m experiencing the same 3D juddering with my Epson EW7200 since 6.4.62. Everything was okay with 6.4.42. I´m absolutely sure that´s a firmware related problem.
  15. 3DBuff

    3DBuff Well-Known Member

    I have 2x Zidoo Z9X boxes both on latest v6.4.62 firmware. One is on 3D 4K LG TV OLED65E6P and the other on Epson Home Cinema 5030UB. I tested it yesterday on both with the handful of movies listed by @damagedspline. All ISO files, complete disks. No judder. LG in 3D mode has FI set to clear. WOW is it ever smoooooth! 120fps interpolated frames in 3D, 4K, passive glasses, zero flicker but the screen is soooo small only 65" compared to PJ o_O
  16. 3DBuff

    3DBuff Well-Known Member

    Maybe it is something external messing up the signal like receiver?
  17. toasted

    toasted New Member

    No - nothing changed in my setup. Maybe it´s a problem with the Epson TH-EW series..?
  18. 3DBuff

    3DBuff Well-Known Member

    Zidoo with latest firmware works for me and @Deano86. Bypass receiver and check again if you are sure PJ settings haven't changed.
  19. crutzulee

    crutzulee Member

    I never updated from 6.4.60 as my Z9X is purely for movies, I don't watch trailers and will never use the music function. As I understand it, the changelog for 6.4.62 had nothing for my use case and actually gave some people issues with movie playback.

    With this box EOL and no longer supported, I'm wondering if there is an overall "best" firmware version for those that only watch movies that would be worth going through the reset process to lock in?
    Telectricity likes this.
  20. LenniePaz

    LenniePaz Member

    If we install this beta, does it include all the things that were in previous betas?

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