Beta version v1.0.75 for Z9X Pro/Z20 Pro/Z2000 Pro/Z2600/UHD5000 release

I have latest beta 1.0.75_G and when using the audio offset option to adjust audio delay I do not notice anything changing. Tested both via Zidoo-->TV-->arc--> AVR and via Zidoo-->optical-->AVR . Seems like the audio offset option does not make a difference at all. Anybody else noticed this?

 

+1

 

I'm going to have to disagree here. There is a BIG issue with the handling of Dolby Vision encoded 4k files with these streaming boxes in their current form... namely FEL 12 bit Dolby Vision. A lot of dual layered FEL encodes used in 4k Blu-ray discs absolutely need the extra video data layer to combat poor encoding of the HDR10 base video layer. Since all these streaming units treat FEL as 10 bit MEL and only read the metadata and ignore the extra video because they don't have dual stream HEVC decoders, you are not gaining the benefit of 12 bit video nor the improved compression quality of the combined video data layers.

 

I have an LG OLED and I have to use TV Led for the picture to show correctly. If I use player led it doesn't work right.

 

Absolutely correct...

Except...

The issue you allude to is an early mastering problem and doesn't really affect contemporary content - according to the Dolby workflow the 10-bit HDR10 base layer must contain the full picture element of the 12-bit master or mezzanine encode.

A bit like the early like teething problems that beset HDR10 (remember MaxCLL figures of 10,000nits!!!), this wasn't really understood in the early days.

There are other problems too of course - a mapping limit of 1000nits for one.

But show me a consumer display that does more than 1000nits, and more to the point, show me a display where you can perceive the difference (bearing in mind we're only talking about specular content).

Yes there are technical issues, but most people watch telly on a 700nit LG, a 1000nit Sony or similar, so unless you're sitting in a light controlled grading suite with a Dolby Pulsar, you're just not really going to see any difference.

It'd be nice if Dolby allowed FEL processing for media players, but I think we've already seen the extremely judicious limit of their patience with the media player crowd, so let's just watch a few movies and enjoy it.

And to be fair, Dolby Vision is such a cluster f*** these days after Dolby's capitulation to Sony and a transition to CMv4 which probably won't hit UHD BluRay, that to be honest I feel we're kind of better off with HDR10(+) anyway - it's a way more easily controlled environment.

But we do like a Dolby logo, it has to be said.

My considered appraisal of Dolby Vision on a massively subjective and simplistic level - compared to HDR10, it makes some scenes a bit dimmer.

Damn, you can tell it's Friday night

 

Respectfully...

Sadly, wonky dual layered FEL Dolby Vision releases are still happening, especially with Paramount and Studio Canal titles, but even Kino, Shout!, Criterion, and Arrow have been guilty of this poor bit of mastering QC on occasion. They skim too much off the 10 bit base video layer and are putting it in the 2 bit differential layer, and it ends up damaging the compression in the base layer. You need the extra FEL image data to make up the difference and heal the macroblocking and chroma errors. It's not simply about overall brightness nit reproduction. It's about COMPRESSION.

It doesn't matter if Dolby came out with new DV encoding guidelines. Those guidelines are not being heeded.

It may not be as noticeable on a smaller flat panel, but on a 128" diagonal 4k projection system, the compression issues are magnified. I can see the difference when I use my Oppo 203 or Panasonic 820 4k players along with my HDFury Vertex2 that can trick those players into producing Player Led 12 bit FEL output to my 12 bit capable projector.

It's too bad these streamers can't come up with something because this issue is negating the use of them for FEL discs.

 

>It'd be nice if Dolby allowed FEL processing for media players, but I think we've already seen the extremely judicious limit of their patience with the media player crowd, so let's just watch a few movies and enjoy it.


CoreElec has this working on the 20.3 and the AM6b+. I've been splitting my watching between that and this Zidoo Z9X Pro.

 

Can you give me a headsup on CoreElec? What is it and where can you find this? Thanks!

 

CoreElec is a Linux distribution that puts Kodi front and center. Instead of Kodi as an app or add-on like ZidooMediaCenter, it is brought to the OS layer instead.

Dolby certifies several SOCs for Dolby Vision, the Zidoo runs off the Realtek RTD1619SOC as we know, but Amlogic SOCs are also Dolby certified. These Amlogic SOCs are split between 2x families. The first is the S905X4-J/K devices or the Dune/Homatics/Rocktek/Nokia devices. The second is the more powerful S922X-J family which are the Ugoos AM6b+ and the Minix U22X-J.

Afaik, only the S922X-J devices will work with P7 FEL (single track only). You can buy either that Ugoos or the Minix, then boot from a flashed microSD card with the latest CoreElec 20.3-ng-dv firmware, and play P7 FEL content without issue. I use the Plex addon for Kodi which works perfectly with my DV remuxes.

I sent a friend step by step directions, which are up to date as of 02/09/24. These instructions are specifically for the Ugoos AM6b+ which I think is a bit more full featured than the Minix (not sure though). This includes steps for Plex, which is my preferred media server:

1. Get the AM6b+ (or the other supported box)
   
   
2. Boot it up. Upgrade the firmware to the newest version (0.5.4). Set the timezone. Shut it down.
   
   
3. Download "Rufus": https://rufus.ie/en/
   
   
4. Use Rufus to write the CoreElec image to a microSD card. That image is found here: https://github.com/CoreELEC/CoreELE...C-Amlogic-ng-dv.arm-20.3-Nexus-Generic.img.gz
   
   
5. While the card is still in the computer. Navigate to the device tree folder, find this file "g12b_s922x_ugoos_am6" (or the Minix file if you bought that instead). Bring it to the root, and rename it as "dtb.img". Eject from computer.
   
   
6. Plug that microSD card into the Ugoos' card slot
   
   
7. Boot up into CoreElec. It will automatically boot into the image found on the SD card
   
   
8. Now install "PlexMod 4 Kodi"
   
   
9. Reference this installation steps in this link https://forums.plex.tv/t/pm4k-plexmod-for-kodi-18-19-20-21/481208
   
   
10. Add the repo into Kodi sources by typing the address found in the previous link "https://pannal.github.io/dontpanickodi/". Plex will install automatically from that repo. This link also helps you navigate the repo addition process: https://www.technadu.com/add-repository-to-kodi/189713/
    
    
11. Login to Plex and you're good to go. Load up a DV remux and enjoy.

Install steps found here: https://coreelec.org/#install and the latest image file is found here: https://github.com/CoreELEC/CoreELEC/releases


I use Ugoos with CoreElec to watch any native 4K DV content as it plays back FEL perfectly. For SDR and HDR content, I use the Zidoo Z9X Pro to take advantage of the VS10 chip. Best of both worlds.

 

I used Ugos AM6+ a few years ago for FEL and it was so buggy and the hardware was obviously under considerable pressure it would lock up a lot, but this was under android - at the time Corelec had no plan to implement dual layer dolby vision support, are you saying this is now working on the latest hardware and is buttery smooth?

I'm sure there is a project where you can rebuild the FEL into the base layer (maybe I've imagined it) - I agree, there are some titles that look awful with the base layer, watching via a Oppo makes a considerable difference, but I really couldn't be bothered having all my files ripped into structured folders, sold my Oppo and the Clone a long time ago.

 

Ok, that's interesting, I wasn't aware of any newer badly encoded content, although I'm not surprised from Arrow!! But Paramount??

The only one I ever saw that actually had a poorly encoded base later was (I think) Total Recall which showed macroblocking in the base layer which was removed with the addition of the enhancement layer. Obviously there's no excuse for that, it's just poor encoder settings when squirting out deliverables from the Dolby Master and should definitely be picked up in QC.

Others just had odd things going on in the RPU that again, were compensated for by the actual video levels in the enhancement layer. I remember thinking at the time that with careful use, this would be the perfect way for Dolby to suppress the use of Dolby Vision for media players because it wouldn't affect the HDR10 layer when the RPU wasn't used... But that's just the conspiracy theorist in me and would never happen because it's detrimental to the picture.

In those cases you're arguably better off using the HDR10 layer because the enhancement layer is just compensating for actual errors in the RPU and kind of belies the point of the RPU.

Unfortunately I can't see the issue changing any time soon - The Realtek 1619, as we know, only has one HEVC decoder, and the AML 928 which is perfectly capable of FEL decoding, and unlike the 905, it can do it at 23~30 and 50~60 Hz, Dolby won't allow it.

Not sure how the Ugoos etc get away with it.

I believe at one point the 905 could leverage the FEL (only up to 30Hz due to decoder limitations) but Dolby then changed the SDK.

I'm curious to see some of these later encodes as discussed above - can you give me some examples and I'll see if I have some of the discs to compare with my Sony player.

 

I tried a Ugoos when it was first figured out they could process a FEL - I've had pretty much every media player ever made and have them all stacked in the attic (one day I'm going to make a massive hanging wall art out of them!) but the Ugoos is the only one I've ever sent back in utter disgust. I even kept my Egreats!

I assume it's more stable now, but at the time, what a POS.

I'm afraid I also very much dislike Kodi and although I played with CoreElec (and LibreElec), they were too much like a needy girlfriend and I just couldn't be bothered with the mither... If I go into the cinema I want to hit the Room On command as I walk in and have everything fire up in sequence, every time, without fail and not have to scrabble around in the dark at the rack.

 

Another option to try of course is VS10 HDR - this uses the VS10 engine to output HDR10 but it uses the RPU to dynamically modulate the output. VS10 SDR does the same, so also worth looking at for projectors.

Ideal for the likes of Samsung displays, and although it goes against the grain a bit if you have a DV display, it's worth a look.

 

This is a known issue. Go to White Balance settings, switch to Point Low and set each primary R, G and B to -1 or -2 (panel dependent). If it requires you to go even lower, then it might be an issue either from other settings or even panel calibration.

 

Using VS10 outputting HDR10 works wonders with first generation JVC Frame Adapt HDR.

 

Good to know

 

Indeed it is. Even Stacey Spears says that DV on BD has bugs, which will never get a fix. So imo "proper" FEL playback is not that important. In fact you should probably stick to HDR10 for UHD BD titles.
Luckily, profile 5 is another story

 

For me, Plex support is by far the most important factor. I need to bring my 200+ Tb library down to each device, and in this regard, I thought the latest CoreElec firmware (20.3-ng-dv) was quite stable and easy to use. In fact easier to setup than my Z9X Pro.

That's right, though "buttery smooth" might be subjective. I'm probably more forgiving in this regard. Their newest firmware came out just under a month ago, and I think things are *much* more stable now vs your experiences before. I knew nothing about CoreElec before 3 weeks ago; I had installed in an hour, and was watching FEL DV remuxes within 2.

When compared to my Z9X Pro, I don't find much difference in hassle of setup. In fact, Plex is faster on the Ugoos since it's running natively in CoreElec vs in ZidooMediaCenter. Installing Plex on the Zidoo was also more difficult than on CoreElec since you need to install 1) ZDMC 2) PlexToZidoo 3) ZidooPlexMod 4) set the path substitution and 5) the SMB discovery, which also required updates to my Unraid setup (enable SMB 1.0).

On CoreElec/Ugoos, it was totally seamless. Overall much more hassle and hoop jumping on the Zidoo to extend Plex support.

Might be worth another shot! Looking through older threads on their forum it definitely seemed like a huge headache before, but I think it's much more consumer ready now. Things like CEC, sleep, etc seem more polished.

 

Thank you for the detailed summation! I will definitely look into this option for dual layered 12 bit FEL content. So there ARE dual HEVC decoder chipsets on the market. It's too bad Zidoo didn't choose to go with something like this for full DV support.

 

Zidoo's focus is on the VS10, which seems to be only on the Realtek SOCs. That's probably the reason.

Which isn't bad because VS10 is the King of SDR/non-DV HDR content. Eg Planet Earth III which is HDR only looks better on the Zidoo/VS10 than on CoreElec.