YCbCr 444 vs YCbCr 422... Why the difference?

Discussion in 'ZIDOO X9S' started by litlgi74, Jan 9, 2018.

  1. ursiel

    ursiel Active Member

    Okay, I tried to play the above video in ZDMC, but it won't play it. I open ZDMC, then browse to highlight the video, hit the "menu" key on the remote, select "play using", and I'm given two choices:

    - VideoPlayer (Default)
    - ZidooPlayer

    VideoPlayer (Default) - which is the ZDMC player - won't play the video in HDR, and the video locks and freezes up and won't navigate correctly either. So I can't test for how ZDMC handles banding with this file as it won't play it.

    ZDMC won't play the "LG Chess 4K Demo", which is also HDR, either. Same issue - no HDR, and freezing.

    So ZDMC won't play HDR?
     
  2. PacoRabanne

    PacoRabanne Well-Known Member Beta test group

    VideoPlayer is the default (something like "embedded") player of KODI, and keep in mind that ZDMC is a KODI somehow modified by Zidoo.
    So you could ask to KODI developers if VideoPlayer is able or not to play HDR contents (or possibly search inside KODI documentation/wiki).
    ZidooPlayer is able to. Or, at least, I was able to play the very same HDR demo through it (but using Media Center, that in turn uses ZidooPlayer; I don't like KODI/ZDMC interface)
     
  3. n_p

    n_p Active Member

    Video plays in

    Zidoos Video Player (ZidooPlayer)
    and in
    Kodis Video Player (DvdPlayer/VideoPlayer)

    In Kodis Player the there are GPU accelleration issues and artefacts in the first few seconds, and the video will drop frames, but its enough to test the banding issue in that scene. Tested with Kodi 16.

    ZidooPlayer plays it just fine.

    You arent able to navigate within the video, thats correct, and caused by the encode.

    HDR does work, if set up correctly.

    Tested on the second to last firmware.

    If you have stuttering/freezing issues, make sure your network is able to stream 4K content, or use a usb drive for the test. (Any one will do. :) )

    Also if you cant identify that both the file explorer, and Zidoo when launching ZidooPlayer, use the same Player to playback content, we'll end up with a proxy state where millenials have to tell each other "where they've one clicked a video from" instead of what is playing it - which has to be prevented at all cost. ;)

    The fact that Zidoo needs a player different than Kodi to handle the more challenging video playback is a huge issue and not a feature, btw. Its most likely a chipset issue, where they either got a specific driver implementation that isnt open sourceable, or they cut corners somewhere (decoding quality) to get 4K content to run smoothly - with them not being able to override Kodis implementation decisions.

    Its actually the main reason, why I cant fully recommend X9S boxes for people wanting to use them for 4K HDR content. Zidoos Player is more issue prone than Kodi - and them trying to make a virtue out of it, is just digging the hole deeper. With every update you get issues like aspect ratio problems, Dolby Digital Plus only converting to mono (wrong balance) - which would not survive one public Kodi release.

    That said, I'm sure they have to make concessions to make their product cost effective. Forcing their own inhouse player over Kodis native one, is the worst kind.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
  4. litlgi74

    litlgi74 Member

    Why is no one from Zidoo saying anything? It's really pathetic.
     
  5. ursiel

    ursiel Active Member

    Yeah, I'm trying real hard to give this thing a chance, because it has great potential, but now I hear Zidoo is on holiday? I'm about to give up while I still am within my return period. If they ever get their act together and fix some of the critical issues, maybe I'll buy it again if Amazon still stocks it. I'll hold onto it for a few more days, but their lack of support will be the reason this ends up gong back. When will companies learn?

    And honestly, these are all issues that should have been sorted half a year ago.
     
  6. ursiel

    ursiel Active Member

    I'm playing the test file directly off a USB 3.0 thumb drive plugged into the unit, not streaming. The ZidooPlayer plays HDR fine, but for me, ZDMC does not trigger the HDR on my TV - it's clearly not in HDR because it's totally drained of color and washed out and the HDR logo doesn't appear. I have no idea why ZDMC won't play HDR for me but it does for you. I tested it with the LG Chess HDR demo too, and the ZDMC just won't play it in HDR. Is there a setting in ZDMC I'm missing for HDR? But the video doesn't even play smoothly - it just stutters until it freezes up completely in ZDMC.
     
  7. ursiel

    ursiel Active Member

    n_p,

    I see you tested that HDR test file in Kodi 16. I don't have Kodi installed, just ZDMC. Perhaps that's why you were able to play it for testing in Kodi. For whatever reason ZDMC won't play that file (or any HDR file I've tested so far).

    Update:

    - ZDMC does not play any of my HDR demo clips (over a dozen in various frame rates). HDR does not engage, and videos start freezing up immediately and lock up. They play okay on the ZidooPlayer. I have not tried Kodi as I haven't installed it yet.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
  8. SaskMedia

    SaskMedia Member

    ZidooPlayer in ZDMC and Kodi (with external player support) play HDR files perfectly fine for me. I had set limited colour to on because things were a little dark.

    Here is my setup:

    Zidoo X9S -> Sony STRDN1080 Receiver (with Extended HDMI enabled) -> LG OLED 65 B7P with HDMI UltraHD enabled on HDMI 2.
     
  9. ursiel

    ursiel Active Member

    ZiddooPlayer is the built-in, native player that ships with the player. If I select that option with "play with" in ZDMC, it plays, but that's because it's the native ZidooPlayer. The ZDMC player won't play HDR, at least for me.

    I haven't tried Kodi yet.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
  10. SaskMedia

    SaskMedia Member

    I think you might have a broken box... for shits and giggles have you tried a different HDMI cable (shorter length)? I tested using hometheater app and HDR works through there as well.
     
  11. n_p

    n_p Active Member

    @ursiel:
    Please dont say ZDMC player when you are refering to "Kodis" internal player. (Even though you are using it in ZDMC.) It gets hard to differenciate between them if you do. ;)

    Here is the logic:
    - It doesnt matter from where you launch a file (file explorer, ZDMC, ...) it only matters what player it launches in. :)
    - There are two players - the one created by Zidoo (ZDMC default for most people, although apparently not for you - this depends on a bunch of things (file extensions, is it being streamed over http, or local, ...) - its a Kodi thing (default Player can be defined for different "scenarios")), and one created by the Kodi folks. The "non Zidoo player" you launch from within ZDMC, is the Kodi player. ;) It should be the exact same you'd get if you install the same "version" of Kodi on your system.

    - That it played for me (with lags, frameskips, graphical errors) and not for you - is ok, remember, that I am connected to a 1080p lut box and my X9S was outputting 1080p60, maybe the rendering of that file only worked for 1080p resolution in the native Kodi player. (Would make sense, because Zidoo wouldnt go through all the trouble of splicing in the "Zidoo Player", if everything worked perfectly with Kodi - on the chipset they use. ;) )

    So dont send your X9S in for repairs yet... ;)
     
  12. ursiel

    ursiel Active Member

    How would a "broken" box cause regular frame drops at timed intervals? How would a broken box cause DVDs to display in the wrong aspect ratios? How would a broken box cause banding in 10bit but not 12bit, even though the content is 10 bit so they should look the same?

    The firmware is broken, not my box.
     
  13. ursiel

    ursiel Active Member

    I'm even more confused as far as the player terminology.

    My player didn't ship with ZDMC installed. I had only one player - available by selecting "Media Center' and then clicking on the file I want to play. I assumed this was called the ZidooPlayer?

    I then manually installed ZDMC. So when I run that app now, and select "play with", I am given a choice of:

    - VideoPlayer (Default)
    - ZidooPlayer

    I assumed VideoPlayer is ZDMC's player (Kodi) and ZidooPlayer is the same player that I had when the box first shipped - the one that plays when I select "Media Center".

    Is this incorrect?
     
  14. JohnS

    JohnS Member

    Yes, dvd playback is faulty, it's not your unit, I suppose few people in the 4K era play dvd rips.
     
    ursiel likes this.
  15. ursiel

    ursiel Active Member

    Thank you for confirming. I agree many have probably never even tried playing DVDs to see if they worked correctly. But Zidoo should have. I play everything from DVD to 3D to UHD with HDR. I bought this player to handle my collection but seeing the Zidoo not even handle basic DVD playback is seriously disappointing.
     
  16. JohnS

    JohnS Member

    As I said to you in the other post, gather your posts and make a new thread with your observations along with the test files you used. This way others could easily confirm your findings.
    Don't be disappointed though from zidoo, I've been a user/member in popcorn hour forums [network media tank now (A300)] and I was never helped from official developing team, only from users like me. And A300 costed almost 3 times more than X9S!
    Here are some general guidelines: http://forum.zidoo.tv/index.php?threads/how-to-report-issues-effectively.3614/
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2018
  17. Miguel Ramos

    Miguel Ramos Member

    I also have banding effect and I have tried everything but I pretty sure that has to do with the limitations of my TW9300 projector and the SoC of Realtek. Hopefully Zidoo will be able to solve this :)
     
  18. Sarco

    Sarco Active Member Beta test group

    Tw9300 is a pseudo 4K, first the 4K signal is downscale to 1080p then upscale to 4K. The good: it keep HDR info, the bad if you use material compress the result will be a mess. If you input a 4K blu ray signal 108mbps to HDR at 128mbps for 24fps of course banding witch is not visible will not be show when downscale, I have 60mbps material showing some light bandind in sky or cloud but if you downscale that the banding will be a mess.
     
  19. Miguel Ramos

    Miguel Ramos Member

    The Epson procedure with 4k signal it's not exactly as you mentioned, but anyway the complains about banding are from several users with lots of different displays. Something is happening and there's no consensus in the solution. Anyway, for its price, it's a great player and maybe with future firmware updates the problem will be attenuated. :)
     
  20. Robynet73

    Robynet73 New Member

    I own zidoo x8 and I test himedia q10 pro and I assure you that with the q10 pro there is no bending video both with tv lg oled b6 that videoprojector Epson tw-eh 7300
     

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