What is the point of having the Zidoo pass through MaxFALL metadata for HDR10? MaxCLL makes sense.

Ok, lets look at that...

"The evidence is that I have LG panels, I've talked to people with LG panels"

Ideally you'd need to use static patterns, say a 25% grey field, with various values of MaxFALL with all other values (MaxCLL, Min/MaxMDL) constant to test this.

"I've talked to people with Sony/Samsung panels"

Same again, although as I say, I can vouch for Samsung panels circa 2017 only using MDL because I've tested it.

So this is basically heresay - no actual testing?

Absolutely haven't taken it that way - on the contrary, it's a very interesting conversation!

 

I'd also love to know which panels treat HDR10 correctly and which don't - but I suspect more do than don't these days - there's really no reason for otherwise.

 

Mr, I am going to be honest with you. I don't know how to 100% without a single doubt prove it to you, however I am like 99.99999% sure. I mean think about it, the LG TVs only have like 3 tone maps right? Like 1000, 4000, and 10,000. From my testing with the Zidoo (both allowing pass through and blocking it), maxfall seemed not to be used whatsoever in the TVs choice of the 3 maps. It just goes off of MaxCLL. When I blocked pass through, it used MaxDML.

 

You'd still have to use test patterns to show it, but really, it's not worth the bother.

The tone maps are interesting - so what I was talking about earlier, the gamma curve cutting off at particular values - that's presumably what those tone maps do.

Presumably they'll hard clip at 1,000, 4,000 nits and the 10,000 won't clip at all.

I expect the 1000nit one would be the way to go because most LG TVs seem to have a maximum Nits of about 700 (from the EDIDs I've seen).

 

Maybe the LG's have some logic where MaxFALL influences the map it chooses? I really do not know. You're right, it's likely not a big deal and not worth it to test.

 

Here is what I found online about how the LG's tonemap. I can't promise this is 100% right but I think it's directionally correct from what I've experienced through my own testing. It doesn't mention MaxFall at all..

 

Hmm - again, kind of heresay.

Probably reading too much into it, but what bothers me about stuff like that is the nomenclature. Looks official but isn't - None of it is part of any standard - MaxTML? Target MaxTML?? Really??

None of it really makes any sense. There is value called "TargetMaxPQ" (PQ = Perceptual Quantizer) used in Dolby Vision, but this all sounds like made up stuff to me.

And MaxDML?? no such thing - there's Maximum and Minimum Mastering Display Luminance and Mastering Display Color Primaries - I tend to shorten the former to MDL because it's easier to type, but even that's not a "real" acronym.

I just kind of think there're a lot of made up assumptions flying around and to be honest, I think they're best ignored and we're all better off just sitting down and watching a good movie in the best way we can with the kit we have.

My advice, as always, is don't fret too much and enjoy the pictures.

 

Fair play though - interesting stuff

 

Yea. I appreciate the discussion man, really. I agree that ALL of this crap is heresay. No one ever proves anything and it's all conflicting, hehe.