Rationalising the Upgrade to AML S928X 8K Range

Hi all, long time since last I have been here. Intended to post this as a comment in one of the threads but it has become too long so I decided to create a thread instead,

My 4-year-old Z9X is now starting to get slow in performance, my ZDMC crashes regularly now but only after a movie ended so that’s not much trouble.

It’s gotten like that not because it’s old but my library has grown so large it’s taking up the 16GB local storage, this is because I use ZDMC to watch and build my library there while at the same time I also used HT4 to build its library so there are double metadata and poster/background images to be stored. I do this because when I watch a movie/TV show in ZDMC when I push the info button I will get the poster and info from HT4. ZDMC has them but it won’t show up because it’s using external player (Zidoo). This is also why it won’t mark a movie/show as in progress or watched because ZDMC player never actually played them. But I love how the library is managed and the UI, maybe because I’m used to Kodi for so many years prior.

The Z9X still exceeds my expectations as far as video quality and playback is mostly flawless. But I’m thinking since the 8K range has been released, it feels like it’s about time to upgrade. Nothing to do with having 8K content, but the fact that it’s capable of 8K also means it should be over-spec’ed for the highest bitrate 4K UHD disc rip I have.

Another reason is that a Zidoo rep has confirmed to me that this new 8K range can stream Apple Music in bit-perfect lossless hi-res audio, and what makes it more attractive is that it can stream Dolby Atmos music too. This already wins over my EverSolo DMP-A6. Not only I can get rid of Apple TV 4K for Dolby Atmos music (it does not stream bit-perfect), I can now move the EverSolo to have a second setup in the living room. The music listening in the home theater room I’ll have to use the AV receiver’s DAC but I will need it for Dolby Atmos music anyway.

I have been reading the forum the last few days, there are some exciting stuffs, although inevitably there’s some less exciting issues too.

Before I pull the trigger, I need to have a few things cleared.

1. I’ve been seeing comments about better picture quality than the last generations, is this with none of the AI enhancements enabled? I don’t like post-processing, but if this “better picture” means the player reproduces the video more accurately then I would want it. I can use test patterns to confirm but I would like to know before I purchase.

2. Curiously better audio quality too which got me confused, how is that possible when you bitstream the audio to your audio receiver untouched? Likely placebo but quite a few claimed the same so if anyone can enlighten me about the technicality behind it then it could be a positive point.

3. Audio sync, a few members seem to have serious issue with it i.e. with Dolby TrueHD content, is it really common? How many actually having this issue? This can seriously hurt watching experience. It seems latest firmware failed to fix it, so if it’s hard or God forbid no possible solution then it’s a negative point.

4. Rewind capability, is it true that it’s not possible? When I watch something with my wife she may have misheard a dialog and wants to rewind back to listen again, if this is not possible then it would be a problem for her as English is not our first language.

5. Do the subtitles still appear with the screensaver when a movie/show is paused? This beats the purpose of having a screensaver to avoid static objects on screen.

6. Stuttering playback. This is a head scratcher, modern and faster processor/GPU with at least 3 times more RAM than my old Z9X but still there’s playback issues. Again, how many is experiencing this? I would like to think it’s the source file, but if more than a couple users then that’s odd.

I might have more questions as I keep reading the forum and reviews.

Don’t care much about dual layer FEL and other stuffs beyond reach, some obscure players might be able to do that but the overall experience is mediocre.

I’m thinking of getting Z3000 Pro for the internal disk slot for additional storage for my source, but I keep arguing with myself that a Z30 Pro would suffice. Additional 2GB of RAM is cool, as with dual HDMI, but is the switching mode power supply better than DC? Does it really make much difference to an all-digital processing work? Even with analogue I would think linear power supply makes more sense.

I’m not claiming anything but I want to learn, hence the post.

I’ll be using the AV receiver’s DAC anyway so I don’t think I need UHD8000 and I can save some dough, but if there’s also a good argument for it for my use case I’m happy to consider.

Sorry for the long write up, @mirror , @Markswift2003 or anybody kind enough to chime in I’m thanking you in advance.

 

About #2 you can read a post from me about that.
http://forum.zidoo.tv/index.php?thr...e-of-measurements-xmos-crystals-and-ps.98226/

The DAC in any connected AMP is clocked via HDMI running in fact on the clock source of the media player.
Better clocks there result in better audio reproduction by the AMP. All previous generations Zidoo media players were known to use an average quality clock. This as such judged by me as my Dune and OPPO sound better.
I just guess they used a better motherboard crystal finally for this generation of players. Only Zidoo can confirm this.

About #4. You can always skip back in various ways as with all previous generations.
Rewind is not possible but forward winding is new. This is keeping picture while doing so and rewind is not what your wife essentially needs.

About #3 This seems to happen with DTS only and with a small amount. It has the clear attention of Zidoo and is expected to get solved by me in time.

After a factory reset your Z9X should run again as new. Must have some pollution.

 

That’s interesting, yes that’s possible. Although I thought that’s for PCM signal, would streams in codec mode i.e. dts-HD MA and Dolby TrueHD benefit from improved clocking? These codecs are basically like zip files when bitstreamed.

Makes most sense on UHD8000 but is it also available on all the new 8K models?

 

The data is bit streamed via HDMI before decoding. Decoding is done by the AMP but that whole process is still running on the HDMI clock source. Took me a while to understand that process.
Discussed this in detail with a McIntosh engineer during a big exhibition in Barcelona happening yearly.

This happens the same on all new models using HDMI for output. The UHD8000 Analog outputs have a data path running via an XMOS processor doing re-clocking using its specific superior DAC module crystals as the source. This making the quality of the crystal on the motherboard irrelevant for Analog Output.
The UHD3000/UHD5000 already used that same setup.

My new Onkyo TX-RZ70 AMP also uses a SABRE DAC internally. A good/bad HDMI clock source can be distinguished fairly easy. It does not do re-clocking like some expensive McIntosh models may do.

 

Thanks Nice Monkey.

An update since I’ve received my Z3000 Pro two days ago.

1. Can’t decide yet, just seen a couple episodes of a TV show with AI off, but it does look a little different.

2. Also can’t decide yet, but it did get me thinking the highs are smoother, I was looking (listening) for improvement likely just imagination but I will test in earnest this weekend. I’m using the second HDMI port for audio.

3. No audio sync issues so far.

4. I can rewind as before, the post I saw probably meant something else.

5. Finally subtitles disappear when the screensaver kicks in during pause! After so many years this is a nice relief.

6. I get stutter for a second or two after a pause, or rewind/forward. Sometimes a black screen for quite a long time, more than 5 seconds. All this never happened in my old Z9X. Hope this will be fixed in a future firmware updates.

The power button is very bright (see photo below, on bottom right, display I just forgot to turn off), it was the same with the power knob in my EverSolo DMP-A6 but then a firmware update adds an option to turn it off. Hopefully we’ll get it in future updates.



Except for some weird write permission issue (I suspect the Backup add-on that does not have permission, not ZDMC but no where to control that) and failing to call the Zidoo player in home view, ZDMC 21 works as expected.

Have not fully tested Music app, first impression not as good as the EverSolo even with the same DAC.

As mentioned in another thread, the PLAY button on the remote is reserved exclusively for the Music app. I expect a disable button in future, I want to be able to hear the music outside the app, but I can/want go back to the app for control. Or at least use the mobile controller app.

UI very stable and fast, even in 4K DV. All my disks detected within a 30 seconds, my old Z9X can take up to 3 minutes.



When I started 4 years ago, I only had an unused 2TB external USB disk from work, so I used that to backup my blu-ray discs into MKV remuxes. As time goes by, I add a 4TB disk, then 5TB, then another, then another. Didn’t want to start a NAS and the likes, I bought a 16-slot USB powered hub by ACASIS. Then I found refurbished 3.5” disks, again quick solution with a powered SATA-USB powered adapters. Unseen connected directly to Zidoo another 5TB, totalling 55TB currectly. Planning to get a 16TB to slot into the Z3000 Pro soon.

 

And thanks for the votes! Looks like I bought the right model.

 

I’ve been listening to Apple Music on the Z3000 Pro for more than an hour now. Plays hi-res lossless 192 kHz just fine, but I like sound on the EverSolo with its DAC more.

But those songs with Dolby Atmos is something else. I have Apple TV 4K that supports Dolby Atmos although been using that for media streaming only since I have the EverSolo. But I forgot how immersive Dolby Atmos music is, it’s all around you with different instruments but subtle enough to not feel like a gimmick.

Getting rid of the Apple TV 4K, I’ll stream the media through my TV.

Really satisfied with the purchase of the Zidoo Z3000 Pro.

 

I’m also happy that we finally have the audio channel count showing correctly. Plus, now it also recognises object-based codecs and even IMAX flags.



I know the previous versions can also read the IMAX flags but it never shown in the info before.



However, this has revealed another weird behaviour of the Z3000 Pro and likely all the 8K models. The above is with the UI set to 4K in HDR, the output video correctly shown as 10Bits HDR10.

The TV is also showing 10Bits HDR10 as expected.



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If I set the UI to 4K in DV to TV-Led, the output video is now showing 8Bits which is the HDMI-tunneling method, while the signal is flagged as HDR10 and the TV also recognises as HDR10.



TV also shows 8Bits that confirm the HDMI-tunneling by DV.



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If I set the UI to 4K in DV to LLDV, the output video is now showing 422 12Bits which indicates player-led LLDV, while the signal is flagged as HDR10 and the TV also recognises as HDR10.



TV also shows as 8Bits so it was also sent with HDMI-tunneling which should be fine (although the Z3000 Pro reports as 12Bits) but that and the 422 colour space are supposedly only used by DV.



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The TV recognises as HDR10 in any settings above.

Setting the HDR settings to Auto or in Advanced with HDR10 as HDR with VS10 for HDR10 selected as No makes no difference.

It seems to follow the UI's HDR settings. Wonder how this work?

 

Hmm - not entirely sure what you're doing here, but if the TV reports HDR10 then you have to assume the box is outputting HDR10 and not DV.

When DV is output, the info screen will show "DV" and tell you whether it's LLDV or TV Led.

I think you're getting confused over LLDV/TV Led selector - that doesn't set DV, it just defines what type of DV is used when DV is output.

4:2:2 is not restricted to LLDV - it can be used with any mode, as of course can 8-bit. Neither are an indication of DV being present.

 

Thanks for the reply. Sure, but I would like to understand why when viewing an HDR content the bits and colour space are different between UI set in HDR, UI set in DV TV-Led and UI set in DV LLDV. Shouldn’t it be consistent as we set in the colour settings? Why does the UI affect the content?

 

Yes, it should be consistent - I’ll have to look at this when I’m home - it’s not something I’ve noticed.

By the way, ignore the TV if it reports 12-bit 4:2:2 as 8-bit 4:2:2 - this is a common bug in the TV - 8-bit 4:2:2 does not exist over HDMI but because 12-bit 4:2:2 is an unusual mode and consumes the same bandwidth as 8-bit 4:2:2, some equipment incorrectly reports it as such.

 

Thanks Mark, nothing urgent just a curiosity. Enjoy your holiday!