EDID thread (RTD1619DR players)

I realized after the fact that I meant to make my last post in the settings thread where I was having a back and forth about this with Mark, who was patiently trying to help me understand this.

What I think I understand so far is that when you set an EDID with "x"NITS as a limit, LLDV passes the signal below "x" through to our projector unfettered and JVC's frame by frame dynamic tone mapping does it's thing. What I'm not understanding is what happens to the metadata encoded in HDR10+ and DV titles. As I understand it, this contains non static, frame by frame info of how each frame should look as decided upon by the person mastering the disc.

Our projector has an HDR10+ setting. I'm wondering what is happening when a ZIDOO with a 10,000nit EDID passes an HDR10+ video through to a JVC NZ7 that receives it in vanilla HDR mode. I'm assuming that, in this instance, the ZIDOO is throwing away the dynamic metadata (artists intent?) and the JVC is applying it's algorithm to interpret how each frame should look ( albeit with amazing results).

 

YES at 10,000 nits it's a bit the metadata of the file read by zidoo and mainly the DTM (auto or manual) of the JVC!
Personally I tested everything from 100 to 10,000 nits and it was 10,000 nits that I retained, because the JVC does an excellent job!!!
After all, all tastes are in nature.........

 

If that's the case, what's the difference between the 10,000 nits and Full custom edid's? @Markswift2003 - can you clarify Mark?

I assume one is mapped to 10,000 nits (so the display thinks the content is mastered at 10k nits), and the other is passthrough as is, but would be good to clarify.

 

Great news that you're pleased with the new PJ - DTM makes a massive difference to the old static gammas.

So yeah, I think you both figured out what's happening - with a 10,000nit LLDV EDID, the box assumes that the display is able to process the image without tone mapping, so the full ST.2084 curve is used without any compression (tone mapping) at the top.

Theoretically, for it to work properly you need to use an HDFury device to tell the PJ that the box is spitting out content with MaxCLL at 10,000 nits too so it has a baseline for tone mapping, but with DTM that actually shouldn't matter as each frame is analysed for content, including its luminance levels.

I believe the JVCs do prefer to know the MaxCLL/FALL/MDL values but I couldn't tell you exactly what they do with them - To be honest I don't think anyone can JVC tend to be very enigmatic when it comes to what goes on in their PJs' innards.

Ask them what the difference between Frame Adapt 1 and Frame Adapt 2 is for example and they'll probably say one has a 1 and the other has a 2. Even the venerable experts on AVS will try to blag it and fluff over the answers in a lot of cases.

Sorry - that's probably me being enigmatic - The "FULL" refers to the rest of the EDID - full audio and full 600MHz video - nothing to do with the Dolby Block or tone mapping.

 

Understood.

 

@Markswift2003 Hi Mark,

Might sound like an odd request, but if I say pretty please, any chance you could just add all sound formats known to man, without making any changes to the dolby block/any display info in the attached edid?

I tried this edid (the one captured with the zidoo connected directly to the display) and LLDV is brighter (lowlights and highlist are better) and much richer.

I can only think of two possibiities for the reason why: a) there is something odd in the onkyo block, or b) the sony engineers already factored in the display primaries when displaying a bt2020 signal in LLDV mode, or, mixture of both lol.

Hope the above makes sense.

 

Just to check before I do that - what EDID are you using at the moment because the Onkyo can't make any difference to the Dolby Block and the Dolby Block has to reflect the primaries that the display supports.

That Sony EDID has primaries very close to DCI-P3, not BT.2020.

 

Hi Mark,

I'm using the one I attached above, so direct from the Sony panel.

 

Sorry - I meant previously - you said this one improved colours in LLDV, so the one without improved colours - if possible, can you attach that too.

 

Understood - attached.

 

Ok - very odd - there's nothing in there that would affect picture, especially not to do with Dolby..

So I took the audio settings from the Onkyo EDID and put them in the Sony EDID (and changed nothing else) but I can't see how that would be any different to the Onkyo EDID...

 

When i uploaded the Onkyo edid, there was no info about the Sony display in that edid if you recall.

And thanks again Mark!

 

Yes, I think the original Onkyo EDID you posted removed the Dolby Block and restricted to HDMI 1.4 (or something like that) which is symptomatic off turning what manufacturers sometimes unhelpfully call an "enhanced" mode or similar.

But that Onkyo EDID you just posted didn't do that - it's HDMI 2 and has the Dolby Block - essentially it's the same EDID as the TV but with more audio modes added which is what should happen. So something changed in the setup between the original one and this one.

So both that EDID and the one I just posted should do exactly the same job.

 

Lol. I can see where the confusion is coming from - the 1st edid above today was from the Sony connected directly to the Zidoo, the 2nd edid I posted today was one where you merged all the info from the 1st edid into the Onkyo edid, and make a few tweaks to the colour primaries I seem to remember.

Anyways, all done now, and thanks again as always.

 

Ah ok - I assumed it was a grab from the box.

But no, the primaries of both of EDIDs you posted today are exactly the same - I wouldn't have changed the primaries because they're defined by the display, so if you change them then you do end up shifting colours...

 

Yeah, understood.

 

Thank god I found this thread hopefully it can fix my issue. I just purchased and installed my first JVC Projector, the NP5, I have been an Epson guy for the last 20-ish years spanning 7 projectors. Any who, I'm quite impressed with the JVC but ran into what I guess is an EDID issue with my Zidoo Z9X. Playing my 4k HDR 10 rips back on my Hisense 100" U88N and all is good as it detects the HDR and the Zidoo shows BT2020 but playing them on my JVC with the JVC set to auto it stays in SDR and hitting the select button to see the Zidoo info, it shows rec709 too. I have both the Hisense and the JVC connected to my Anthem AVM 70 8k with the TV out of output 1 and the projector out of output 2. I wonder if having both connected to the Anthem is causing the issue....and I haven't tried the projector by itself yet out of the Anthem. Would really like to experience my movies on the JVC in glorious HDR 10 but with the warnings about trying a custom edid and me not being experienced with edids I'm afraid to dive in by myself. So any thoughts on my issue, is there another Media player that just works or might this be an easy fix with a custom edid? Thanks

 

AV amps tend to get confused when two displays are connected and it sounds like the Anthem is screwing the EDID.

Does this happen when the JVC only is switched on?
Or with both TV and JVC switched on?
Or in both cases?

Can you post the EDID when this is happening:

To Download EDID
================

Settings/Display/Custom EDID/Save EDID

Save to a USB stick or network location

Post file as attachment to forum

 

Thanks for the help, I only use one or the other....just checked and the JVC/Anthem work as intended when the HDMI out from the Anthem to the Hisense TV is removed. One of the reasons I purchased the JVC was to get the same resolution projector as my TV so that they would both work while coming out of the Anthem (one at a time). My older Epson 3800 did not have HDMI 2.1 so while trying to have both come out of the Anthem, the Epson would not sync and the video would constantly flash on and off when I tried to use it, so I had to unplug the TV's HDMI out (from the Anthem) every time to get the Epson to stop flashing. Anthem Support told me it was because the TV and the Epson did not have the same resolution. Now that I have a projector and TV with the same resolution the Anthem still can't do it's job
So now I wonder what my options are preferably without having to unplug the TV output from the Anthem to use the JVC every time I'll attach the EDID, Thanks again!! and lol...
A pair of slippers, a comfy sofa and a glass of 16 year old single malt

 

Very odd - so that EDID has no HDR support as expected so that explains why everything is in Rec.709, but why the Anthem would do that I have no idea - makes no sense.

Anyway, hopefully we can get around it with a Custom EDID - try this:

1. Physically disconnect the Hisense TV
2. Check that the projector and Zidoo work as expected in terms of resolution and HDR modes
3. Save the EDID as you did above
4. Load that EDID back into the Zidoo as a Custom EDID and make sure it's active

This will allow the Zidoo to meet the Projector's capabilities - HDR etc. The only thing it won't do is Dolby Vision (I presume the Hisense is Dolby Vision?).

Anyway, see if this solves the issue as far as the projector is concerned.