I’ve just posted a reply on the Z8 forum relating to the perceived gains of a A6/Z8 combo (not much, IMO) and it got me thinking. Given that far more people inhabit this thread, I thought it worth seeking opinions over here. Having owned some quite serious kit over the last 40-years, my instinct is that the tech has now come so far that the A6/Z8 is as good as my ears require and that paying anything more has far more to do with ego/vanity/ignorance than sonic-gain (perhaps, <age 25-years ears excluded!). To me, it seems that going up the cost-scale gains something with speakers - but to what level/price-point before diminishing returns become silly? Also, am I correct in starting to believe that a A6/c£2k Amp combo seems to be all that’s required to achieve genuine, ‘as good as it gets’, HiFi sound now (normal volumes/space). For context, Linn kit is my ’spiritual home’, so having to accept that a £2k Amp can compete really stings! What price (if any) is it necessary to pay before achieving noticeably better SQ than an A6 can deliver? Is paying more than c£2k for a modern, integrated Amp in a normal home/listening room necessary? At what price-point are you just paying for speakers to look cool, rather than SQ? Is ‘upgraditus’ dead? Any thoughts?
It's a tough question... despite being retorical, it all depends on you, your audio experience so far, your age, your needs. After 40 years listening to music with various level of equipment, being in my mid-50s, a DAC with the SQ of the A6, paired with decent amp and speakers does it all. Needless to say that there are a multitude of DACs with these specifications out there, many even at a ridiculously low price, I would say a DAC in the 400 is already TOTL. An good amp @200WPC could cost another 500. A good pair of speakers to go with (following the 50/50 rule) should require something in the line of 800. So totaling up 1700. Put it to 2K and you are done with cabling and price fluctuation. Then I do not include streamers / players / turntables etc... that's up to you. A Raspberry Pi based streamer should go for about 150 including a nice case... Other streamers come with a DAC, so that you can leave one component out and get two. Now you could be at 2K1 / 2K2. As I said, the market is a mess, or rather a nightmare... My current setup: 1. Raspberry Pi with 7'' touch screen running moOde audio (free) 2. Eversolo Z8 DAC (via USB) 3. Presonus Eris 10 active subwoofer (170W, class AB amplifier) 4. Presonus Eris 5XT active monitors(85W, class AB amplifier each) Small footprint, total price roughly 1700 EUR, including a 1TB SSD for local music (consider the Z8 alone is 700) I listen near field (2/3m away from the speakers), sometimes at high volume, and I'm ok with this gear; and for me this is going to be my system for at least the next 4 years. Considering I have it since one year, in the end its cost would be about 1 EUR/DAY. Then I have no idea, maybe just for fun I'll tackle with the Pi, or I'll try a new DAC (what are we expecting in a 4-year time in terms of SQ?); but that's it. I am not in my 20s, but I know what I listen to, what I search in the music when I do critical listening, and tried enough, IMO, components. And this may make a huge difference... HTH
In terms of electronics yes, hypex/purifi/eversolo/ is as good as it gets at any price which seems mad but if you look at the measurements … However real gains are to be found in loudspeakers and their interaction with the room. Keith
This is my thought as well, i do own all of these. However re the interaction with the room, isnt Dirac Live ART about to also deal with room treatment ?
Great feedback - thanks to those replying. Back in the day, I was advised to spend roughly equal amounts on source, amplification & speakers (+10% cabling) and an upgrade path was fairly obvious. As a kid, I used to visit my local library, withdraw an album (with all the scratches & crackle that you would expect of a numerously loaned piece of plastic), play it on my Rega Planar 2, amp through my Pioneer A400 and rock the my neighbour’s world with my Mission 700’s (I actually wore out my first copy of Rainbow Rising)! Of course, recording onto my TDK-SA’s via my Nakamichi was obligatory and I felt like the coolest kid in the playground! I understood this analogue world and the ‘equal amount’ formula made sense. Since then, obscene amounts of money has been spent on various, overpriced boxes (mostly Glaswegian - if you know, you know!) and I now find myself in a place where (by traditional HiFi standards) a bargain-basement piece of mainstream kit like the A6 provides such stellar performance - unimaginable at any price not so long ago (not to mention the ability to access a music library so vast). I sometimes read some of the gripes about the A6 and think about how much money performance such as this would have demanded just 10-years ago, let alone 20. For the non-technical (me!), the advent of digital was easy to comprehend when CD’s came onto the scene, but the advent of streaming through, what seems to me to be, a mini-computer, has led to an environment where traditional HiFi experience is far less important than technical, in-depth understanding of the digital world. Of course this isn’t a bad thing, but I’m sure that I’m not alone in struggling to keep up! Whilst I’ve learnt a great deal recently, I’d be foolish to pretend that I understand some of the conversations that are taking place - I just don’t speak the language. Hence the fact that I’m finding this forum so educational (apart from Denon - there’s just no excuse). So, when my ‘upgraditus’ kicks in again, Room Equalisation & Speakers are the way to go. Wife will be delighted when I inform her that my Kef Blade fund needs to be reinstated - thanks for that! Thanks guys.
Blades measure and sound great. I do think you need Dirac, just acoustically measure with REW ask it to create any filters ( purely in the low bass) and them a method to implement them Roon for example. Keith
Thank you. I’ve got Dirac on my AV Receiver (Arcam AVR-550) and it did make a huge difference. I doubt that it’s 100% correctly setup, but I wouldn’t be without it. My HiFi setup’s in a different room with horrible acoustics (hard-floor, minimal furnishings and a glass roof) and I’m certainly going to have a go - REW looks like the place to start. Cheers.
I would limit Dirac’s correction to low bass only, a few hundred hertz, up to the Schroeder transition phase of your room. Now I find ‘less is more’ in terms of EQ, and there are very good reasons to only add filters in the minimal base portion of the FR which are usually found in the low bass. Keith
I have paid silly money to be in a that Salisbury/Glasgow club. Spent more money on stands and power supplies, too. Classe D amplifiers for as little as c. £100, passive preamps even cheaper turned my ears around. No comment on room correction, I tried to get it work with some, cough, mid range meridians gear from the noughties (G96). It was too much like hard work. I gave up. The DMP-A6 does all of what the G-96 was supposed to do, and a lot more besides for less than 20% of what the Meridian retailed for when it was new. I think you can get some decent active speakers, whatever you want to pay for them, and a DMP-A6. There are some cheaper options ( Matrix min-4, Audalytic AH90). But globally I think you could a really nice sounding little system without spending more than say 2k€. Cheaper if you are happy with some 2nd hand options.
Yep, been there, done that got the leather meddle. Spent a fortune in the quest for audio nirvana. Don't think I'll ever get there before I die. I'm just happy I haven't lost my hearing - yet. Yes, that certain company that doesn't have the letter C in any of its product names except one speaker and one compact audio system IIRC. Still beats me why only two. I know the brand well. A now deceased dear friend was a huge fan of the brand that "could do no wrong". Possibly might have had something to do with his past employment with a Gaswegian hi-fi retailer who stocked the brand or it might have been something to do with his heritage? After all it's probably one of the country's biggest exports along with the Bay City Rollers. I did however find it surprising that despite his affinity for the brand he only owned one piece of their equipment, the turntable (not sure which version of its numerous incarnations he had). I never heard him play a record on it, well not in my presence anyway.
