Frame drops / Stuttering

Discussion in 'ZIDOO X10' started by ursiel, Mar 1, 2018.

  1. ursiel

    ursiel Active Member

    I originally posted this in the x9s v2.0.5 firmware thread, as I originally owned the x9s, but I was asked by several users to create separate threads highlighting some of the more serious issues with these players, to bring it to Zidoo's attention. Now that I own the x10, I see this player suffers from all the same issues as the x9s. There's a wealth of information on these issues in these 2 threads for the x9s:

    http://forum.zidoo.tv/index.php?threads/new-firmware-v2-0-5-version-beta-for-zidoo-x9s-release.7401/
    http://forum.zidoo.tv/index.php?threads/ycbcr-444-vs-ycbcr-422-why-the-difference.7216/

    So here goes:

    Stuttering & other issues

    Linked to from the kodi wiki samples page:
    1920x1080 50.000 AVC .mkv
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwxFVkl63-lEbFBzak1sbmU1N0E/view
    Doesn't play - screen goes black, no audio, but you can bring up the navigation bar and it seems to be advancing
    (TV's native media player plays it fine)

    Linked to from the kodi wiki samples page:
    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/6iy4gxgsfn14opq/AAAK_L1M_NwZwBPb5IkEPh7Ga?dl=0
    Hi10 Anime samples
    Doesn't play - screen goes black, no audio, but you can bring up the navigation bar and it seems to be advancing

    Linked to from the kodi wiki samples page:
    https://www.koi-sama.net/files/hi10/
    Hi10 Anime samples (header stripping)
    "Can't Play Video."

    All 5 of these clips play with a solid grey bar on the bottom of the video: (TV's native media player plays them all fine)

    4096x2160 HEVC 24.000 .mp4

    http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/samsung-nx1/FULLRES/yvid_SAM_0161-C4K_Sample.MP4
    4096x2160 HEVC 24.000 .mp4
    http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/samsung-nx1/FULLRES/yvid_SAM_0164-C4K_Sample2.MP4
    3840x2160 HEVC 29.970 .mp4
    http://imaging-resource.com/PRODS/samsung-nx1/FULLRES/yvid_SAM_0235-UHD_Sample1.MP4
    3840x2160 HEVC 29.970 .mp4
    http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/samsung-nx1/FULLRES/yvid_SAM_0231-HQQuality.MP4
    3840x2160 HEVC 29.970 .mp4
    http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/samsung-nx1/FULLRES/yvid_SAM_0230-ProQuality.MP4

    VP9 - (HDMI AUTO/Switch Frame rate and resolution)
    Eye of the Storm 4K Ultra HD.mkv (Youtube) (3840x2026 (1:895) 24.000 VP9 (OPUS audio) .mkv)

    Stuttering, No Audio, Player info reads 0 fps (TV's native media player also has same issues)

    No stutter issues with the HEVC demos I tried, but AVC had serious stutter issues, making them unwatchable, especially in the 29.970 frame rate. For those files, I tried "Switch frame rate and resolution" (which sent out 2160p/29.970), and also manually forced 2160p/30.00 and 2160p/60.000. In all cases the files still stuttered.

    AVC - Stutters badly (HDMI AUTO/Switch Frame rate and resolution)
    TV's native media player plays them fine

    ------
    29.970
    - 4K_AUO.mp4 (3840x2160 29.970 AVC 92.7 Mb/s)
    - Hisense_The-amazing-beauty-of-the-planet_large.mp4 (3840x2160 29.970 AVC 89.3 Mb/s)
    - LG Cities By Night 4K Demo.mp4 (3840x2160 29.970 AVC 45.1 Mb/s)
    - Panasonic Marvelous World 4K Demo.m2ts (3840x2160 29.970 AVC 119 Mb/s)
    - Samsung_UHD_demo_2013.mp4 (3840x2160 29.970 AVC 48.8 Mb/s)
    - Samsung_UHD_demo_Iceland.mpeg (3840x2160 29.970 AVC 49.2 Mb/s)
    - Sharp_4K_Italia_Parasols.mp4 (3840x2160 29.970 AVC 73.0 Mb/s)
    - Skyworth_4K_Jiuzhaigou.mp4 (3840x2160 29.970 AVC 96.5 Mb/s)
    - TCL_-_Four_Basic_Colors.mp4 (3840x2160 29.970 AVC 79.8 Mb/s)

    60.000
    - bbb_sunflower_2160p_60fps_normal.mp4 (3840x2160 60.000 AVC 8,488 kb/s)

    Variable (Zidoo Player info reads 30 fps)
    - Panasonic_-_The_World_Heritage_of_Cambodia.m2ts (3840x2160 Variable AVC 110 Mb/s)
    - Panasonic_4K_Hokkaido_and_Tokyo.m2ts (3840x2160 Variable AVC 112 Mb/s)


    AVC - No stutter (HDMI AUTO/Switch Frame rate and resolution)
    ------

    29.970
    - Sony_Demo_Bravia_4K_2014.mp4 (3840x2160 29.970 AVC 12.1 Mb/s)
    - LG_4K_UHD_Music_Video_AOA_Miniskirt.mp4 (3840x2160 29.970 AVC 20.7 Mb/s)
    - Panasonic Perfume 4K Demo.mkv (3840x2160 29.970 AVC 39.7 Mb/s)

    30.000
    - bbb_sunflower_2160p_30fps_normal.mp4 (3840x2160 30.000 AVC 7,981 kb/s)
    - LG_4K_UHD_Music_Video_Apink_Mr_Chu.mp4 (3840x2160 30.000 AVC 21.3 Mb/s)
    - LG_4K_UHD_Music_Video_Hyomin_Nice_Body.mp4 (3840x2160 30.000 AVC 21.4 Mb/s)
    - LG_4K_UHD_Music_Video_T_Ara_Number_Nine.mp4 (3840x2160 30.000 AVC 20.9 Mb/s)
    - Mandelbrot Set Standart Zoom. 10^33 in 4K [3840x2160 - No Sound].mp4 Youtube (3840x2160 30.000 AVC 16.6 Mb/s)

    25.000
    - CanalPlus_4K_Demo.mp4 (3840x2160 25.000 AVC 33.2 Mb/s)

    23.976
    - LG Europe 4K Demo.mp4 (3840x2160 23.976 AVC 125 Mb/s)
    - Samsung_UHD_Cityscape.mp4 (3840x2160 23.976 AVC 43.1 Mb/s)
    - Sony Alpha 7R 2 4K Demo.mp4 (3840x2160 23.976 AVC 98.4 Mb/s)
    - Sony The Fountains Of Bellagio 4K Demo.mkv (3840x2160 23.976 AVC 47.1 Mb/s)
    - UHD 4K Sony FDR-AX1 2160p.mpeg (3840x2160 23.976 AVC 50.3 Mb/s)


    29.917
    - LG Greece and Norway 4k Demo.mp4 (3840x2160 29.917 AVC 33.4 Mb/s)


    HEVC - No stutter (HDMI AUTO/Switch Frame rate and resolution)
    --------
    3840x2160 23.976 HEVC .ts 51.4 Mb/s
    3840x2160 24.000 HEVC .mp4 38.5 Mb/s
    3840x2160 25.000 HEVC .ts 51.4 Mb/s
    3840x2160 29.970 HEVC .mp4 24.9 Mb/s - 46.8 Mb/s
    3840x2160 29.970 HEVC .ts 31.0 Mb/s - 51.4 Mb/s
    3840x2160 30.000 HEVC .ts 23.8 Mb/s - 51.4 Mb/s
    3840x2160 50.000 HEVC .ts 16.2 Mb/s - 45.8Mb/s
    3840x2160 50.000 HEVC .mkv 24.7 Mb/s
    3840x2160 50.000 HEVC .mp4 61.7 Mb/s
    3840x2160 59.940 HEVC .mp4 77.4 Mb/s
    3840x2160 59.940 HEVC .ts 31.1 Mb/s - 51.6Mb/s


    Why does the Zidoo player have such stutter issues particularly with so many AVC 29.970 files? Is it another frame rate issue with the player or is it the AVC codec at higher bitrates for some reason? I played the Jellyfish demo http://jell.yfish.us/at 400 Mb/s and it played fine, so bitrate shouldn't be an issue.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2018
  2. ursiel

    ursiel Active Member

    This is a 2nd post I made in the x9s thread, highlighting the issues I have seen with frame drops:

    Frame Drops

    I don't know how much easier I can make this, so I'm going to post this here, and Zidoo, and the members in here, can do what they want with it. I have spent hours running motion bars on the Zidoo, in order to track down under which configurations the 23.976 frame drops occur. This is the file I used, linked to from the Kodi wiki:

    https://github.com/mifi/lossless-cut-fixtures/raw/master/FPS_test_1080p23.976_L4.1.mkv

    It is a 1080p 23.976fps motion bars test pattern, used for watching for frame drops. These bars make it easy to spot frame drops, though it can make your eyes go a bit wonky after a while. The times I list are what is shown on the bottom-left corner of the test file (in seconds).

    Here are the results:

    2160P - 10bit - 23.976fps

    HDMI Mode: 2160p 60Hz
    Deep Color Mode: 10bit
    Color Space Mode: YCbCr 444, YCbCr 420

    Frame Drops:
    52 seconds
    161 seconds
    270 seconds
    379 seconds
    (109 seconds apart after 1st frame drop)



    1080P - 10bit - 23.976fps - 2D/3D

    HDMI Mode: 1080p 60Hz
    Deep Color Mode: 10bit
    Color Space Mode: YCbCr 444

    Frame Drops:
    81 seconds
    249 seconds
    417 seconds
    585 seconds
    (168 seconds apart after 1st frame drop)



    2160P - 1080P - 10bit - 23.976fps - 2D/3D

    HDMI Mode: 2160p/1080p 60Hz
    Deep Color Mode: 10bit
    Color Space Mode: YCbCr 422, RGB 444

    Frame Drops:
    83 seconds
    254 seconds
    425 seconds
    596 seconds
    (171 seconds apart after 1st frame drop)



    2160P - 1080p - Deep Color OFF - 23.976fps - 2D/3D

    HDMI Mode: 2160p/1080p 60Hz
    Deep Color Mode: OFF
    Color Space Mode: YCbCr 444, YCbCr 420, YCbCr 422, RGB 444

    Frame Drops:
    83 seconds
    254 seconds
    425 seconds
    596 seconds
    (171 seconds apart after 1st frame drop)


    These frame drop patterns are repeatable. Every time I run the patterns I see the exact same frame drops in each configuration. My TV's native media player plays the test file without any frame drops, as do my older media players (Mede8er, WDTV Live). I have not tested with other frame rates besides 23.976, but it is quite possible other frame rates also drop frames (24.000/25.000/29.970/59.940). I have not tested extensively with 12bit, but I can say that regular frame drops also happen in 12bit, though possibly spaced further apart.

    Notice the frame drops happen not only when outputting 2160p, but also 1080p. Also notice the frame drops happen even when deep color is disabled.

    Conclusion: With the current 2.0.5 firmware, the Zidoo x9s suffers from frame drops when playing 23.976 material, across all 1080p and 2160p configurations. The timing of the frame drops varies depending on the configuration of color space mode, deep color mode, and resolution.

    Either Zidoo can look into this serious issue, or ignore it. I will not be keeping my player with the firmware in the current state that it is in. These issues need to be fixed. If this gets resolved, I may buy the x9s again at a later date. To the members of this forum, I have done my best to help bring attention to some of these flaws so that Zidoo can focus on them. It does not help when some members claim "I don't see it, so it must not be happening". If you don't see it, then move along. Not everyone is sensitive enough to see these issues. The x9s (and likely the x10 too, since they share similar firmware) have issues that need addressing. Brushing it under the rug, or trying to blame my TV, is not helping the situation.

    One final note, I watched a 23.976 UHD/HDR movie last night on the x9s, and I did indeed notice the frame drops even with casual viewing. As I said previously, it's one frame drop every x amount of seconds. For some this will be very annoying, and for others they will never notice it. That doesn't mean it's not a problem.

    I have confirmed these stutters also happen to the exact second on the x10 also, on firmware v1.4.16. So it is not limited to the x9s, or the latest firmware version.
     
  3. mattmarsden

    mattmarsden Member

    The silence from Zidoo is deafening.
     
  4. ursiel

    ursiel Active Member

    Indeed it is. I returned my x9s and if I don't hear anything promising soon the x10 goes back too. I'm not going to get stuck with this player if things don't improve. As I said in the x9s threads, I bought these players assuming that now that they've been out for well over a year, the firmware should be mature and all the major bugs should be worked out by now. I'm frankly stunned that this player (and the x9s) have so many major issues. I would expect this early in it's life cycle, but not at this point. It has frame dropping issues, plays DVDs and DVD remuxes in the wrong aspect ratio, offers no way to correct that using a custom aspect ratio adjustment, it can't even play multiple video files in a folder, the interface and playback is sloppy, it has banding issues in 10bit - but look, we've got a new poster wall!

    I don't care about poster walls. I want playback to be solid. Playback is not solid on this player.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018
    Davicom likes this.
  5. Davicom

    Davicom Member

    ursiel likes this.
  6. ursiel

    ursiel Active Member

    Thank you. I'm trying the best I can to get their attention. I want to love this player, but with the issues this thing has, I can't keep it. I'll give it a couple more weeks, but I'm not hopeful. I kept my X9s for over 3 weeks, and in that time, I heard nothing from Zidoo about these issues. I posted all of this in the x9s v2.0.5 firmware thread, and never got a single response from Zidoo. I would have thought they were following that new firmware thread. So it was suggested by a few users to create separate threads. Sadly, I'm losing hope in this player.
     
  7. Davicom

    Davicom Member

    I trust zidoo. I think that they will fix things. We need patience. Certainly, at this point I would like them to concentrate, as you said, on stability as a player,
    on the other hand, that's why we bought it, instead of other features that you can do without.
     
  8. mattmarsden

    mattmarsden Member

    Would it be that difficult for them to just write a quick comment to at least acknowledge the problem?
     
  9. ursiel

    ursiel Active Member

    Agreed. At this point if I don't hear an acknowledgement within the next couple weeks, the player is going back and I'm giving up on Zidoo. I've been patient and I've tried both the x9s and the x10, and I've done a ton of troubleshooting, but if they're not willing to do their share to address these issues, I'm out.

    I don't expect fixes overnight. But hearing some confirmation about what they're working on and looking into would go a long way to keep our trust.
     
  10. PROXIMO

    PROXIMO New Member

    I have the same issue with my H6 PRO, frame drops while watching video stream 720 or 1080P even with latest firm 1.0.36.
    I found few issues with the box.
    Play services was crashing constantly after app update was ok, but after reboot update was missing and i had to update it again. Fixed that by making the update as system file replacing the old version so it is never lost or uninstalled.
    BT remote is often disconnecting, and when connected again displays a message, which is annoying if watching a video.
    Box looks great and solid but when i touch it, the whole TV flickers due to static electricity b/n me and the box, also i could see a spark. Video pauses for 1-2 secs.
    Finally these random frame drops when playing video from Morph tv or Movian. I did not noticed any if I watch YTube.
    One last thing i was about to forgot. Often when watch YTube or switch between apps and video the whole screen flickers as if is changing resolution or refresh rate on a monitor. This happens for like 2 seconds.
    This is frustrating and i have another box Nexbox A95X 2+8 that i have upgraded to android 7.1.2 and even with less powerful SoC Amlogic S905X doesn't suffer from these issues.
    Please fix video frame drops and flickering and tell me how to deal with KBD message and static electricity.
    Best regards!
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2018

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