Help understanding subtitles

Forgive me if this question has been asked before.
My movie rips are all BDMV files.
When watching a movie my subtitles list:
Subtitles English PGS Off 1 and 2
Forced Subtitles 1 and 2
If I turn English on, Forced English on, it shows subtitles even when they are talking in English, like Closed Captioning.
If I turn Subtitles off, forced on, it seems it displays the subtitles correct if another language is spoken.
The problem is if I turn subtitles off, I can't move the position of the subtitles which is the one of the main reasons I purchased the Zidoo. I wanted it to work like my Panasonic UB820 and Oppo players. I have a "scope" 2.40: 1 screen with projector, so I zoom to fill the image with no black bars.
I'm hoping it is just a setting I have incorrect. Can someone help me figure this out?
Thanks.

 

Anyone?
All I need is the correct setting to see subtitles when spoken in a different language than English. I also would like the ability to move the position if needed.
I have burned hundreds of Blu-ray discs and when I set DVDFab I leave the subtitles alone (default English) I leave only English selected. When I play the Disc on my standalone player the subtitles are displayed correctly and I can move them with the player. It should work the same with the Zidoo since it is in BDMV format. I just need the correct setting for regular subs and forced subs.
Thanks

 

Interesting, pretty much all of my titles that have forced foreign language subtitles included are already scope friendly. So, I have never really needed to move them.. unless I tried a downloaded one. Then if if I really wanted to keep it I used Subtitle Edit program to properly place/edit it. FYI, BDMV files are not typically meant to be used by themselves.. they are supposed to be part of a regular disc file structure. I only use movies rippped to MKV. And I identify any foreign language subtitles as needed and make sure they are flagged as forced(F). Thus I can leave the overall subtitles as OFF but have forced subtitles set to Auto on mine.

 

Thanks. I just wanted to know if I have the settings right. You CAN use BDMV files and they play fine. If I ever want to burn to disc they are already in the correct file format. Which is why I don't understand how a BDMV file by itself or burned to disc is any different. Maybe I need to look at my Panasonic player settings and copy those to the Zidoo for subtitles.
If I ever have a movie where part of the subtitle goes into the black bars (which are zoomed out) I want to be able to move them up into the picture.

 

If you ever have a subtitle that is in the black bars and you turn subs off and have forced on you CAN'T move them.

 

Press Subtitle button (or select Menu/Subtitle/Select Subtitle), tick the subtitle and now you can adjust position using Subtitle Settings.

This does not override the global Subtitle "Off" and global "Forced" setting and will only apply to that particular file so it allows you to adjust only those subs that are badly positioned.

 

Okay, I think I understand.
If I have PGS subtitles turned "OFF" and have Forced Subtitles "ON" I can still move them? I just need to tick the subtitle "OFF' selection and it will let me move them? When I tried that the other night it would not let me move them, maybe I was not doing it correctly.
I guess my main question is what to set it at all the time. Like I said, I use DVDFab to rip the movie only. I just select the English subs (basically DVDFab has them checked Automatically) so I don't change anything. When I play a movie that has been burned to disc the player displays the foreign language when spoken.
When I have the same file playing through the Zidoo the first PGS sub is highlighted and the first forced is highlighted, but the movie displays English subs like Closed Caption. How do I set the player to just display subs when a different(foreign) language is spoken, AND have the ability to move them if needed. (Which you may have already answered)

 

Mark already outlined the procedure for you to use to move your forced subtitle. Again, you are using disc files... and Zidoo is not a disc player... so if you want the forced subtitle to be recognized and played as such, you need to have it flagged as Forced (F). I don't mess with BDMV files so I can not speak as to whether Zidoo properly reads the forced flag on those or not?? Or if it is even possible? .. .All I know is that it works for MKV files just fine.

When I rip my titles to MKV, I also have it automatically rip any English subtitles.. then, when the rip is finished I use MediaInfo to look the number of items that are in each of the subtitle streams... very easy to locate the foreign language one as the number of items is very small compared to the regular subtitles that have a few thousand. Then I use MKVToolnix header editor to toggle that subtitle stream to (F). Or you could even use the regular remux feature with Toolnix to eliminate the other subtitle streams completely.

 

Yes

No - see last message - tick the sub "ON" then move.

Subs off, Forced Subs on.

As above and move with subs menu as needed.

Remember, this is an exception - most presentations are mastered sensibly with subs in the movie frame, so most of the time you don't need to change anything.

I've had a CIW masking screen for over a decade and can probably count the number of times on one hand where the subs are in the masks on scope presentations

 

When I did this I could move them, but when I ticked it "OFF" it moved it back where it was.

This is fine, except as above when I tick subs "ON" I can move, but when they are put back to "OFF" they move back where they started.

I get it. there may not be that many instances where it happens, but it seems it doesn't work correctly based on my observation.

BTW, maybe we can get Netflix movies to put the Subs in the picture not in the black bars

 

Did this function work with a previous FW?

 

I just prefer ripping to M2ts vs. mkv. I know millions of people rip to mkv. I just want it as it was on the original disc. I have ripped hundreds of movies this way with DVDFab. I actually ripped several movies with Makemkv ripping them to mkv format and the same movie using the decrypt function to m2ts. For some reason the exact same movie stream was 3gb smaller on every mkv file. I don't know why this is. I know it isn't supposed to compress the file in anyway and should look identical to the m2ts file. If you compared both movie streams you probably wouldn't notice any difference in quality, but where did the 3gb go?
Hopefully Mark or someone can figure out why the subtitle changes back to the original position when you turn the subtitle off again.

 

I only use mkv and I remove all subtitles I don’t need along with any language tracks other than English. I extract the English full subtitle (not SDH) and convert it to .ass, looks nicer and easily positioned. Re M2ts I think they are marginally larger due to the extra header information they might carry, I really don’t know but there is absolutely no difference in video quality. I’ve done a subjective test of the same file via side by side monitors and couldn’t detect anything.

 

If your M2ts rips are 3gb larger than MKV, then IMO, you are wasting HDD space... MKV files also have the advantage of being abundantly more editable with MkvToolnix and refresh my memory.. but I thought that by ripping to M2ts, don't you lose the chapter info? It has been forever since I messed with them...

 

That's a good question. I just started ripping my movies to a HDD. I have always burned them to disc. When they are burned they have chapters obviously. When I watch the stream using MPC-HC it doesn't seem to have chapter breaks. I haven't used Makemkv very much at all. I may just switch to mkv file format

 

If the original doesn't have chapters they can be easily added to MKVToolNix under subtitles, create subs every x minutes etc. Format for every 5 minutes is 00:05:00.00 (H:M:S.fractions of S)
Or seek out an old program MKV Chapterizer available at Videohelp.com

 

I just remux everything into MKV, don't touch the streams, i remove all audio streams and subs i dont need, huge space gains if you do this.

 

Why would you turn it off again? Off course it moves back if you do that.

 

If I turn them ON (regular subs) Yes I can move them, BUT they display English subs all the time like Closed Caption. I don't need or want to look at English subtitles when watching a movie that is spoken in English. When I turn them OFF the English subs go away when they are speaking in English, BUT I can no longer move them.
This is the whole point of my thread. I need the correct setting so I can see English subtitles ONLY when a different foreign language is spoken AND have the ability to move them.

 

Ok - figured out what's going on.

My bad, I hadn't noticed you said you use BDMV - subtitles behave differently because there aren't separate forced streams like there are with MKV, so in the case where forced subs are active, but subs inactive, the actual stream is deemed switched off and not adjustable because the forced subs are a subset of the main sub stream.

Upshot is, no, they can't be adjusted in BDMV (or ISO) playback because of the way they're mastered - you'll need to remux to MKV which produces a separate stream for forced subs.

What I don't understand is why this is an issue with BluRay rips - can you give a couple of examples so I can see if I have them because I've never seen subs on a BluRay where they're outside the image frame - just curious if I can find another way around it.