Zidoo Z1000 PRO - Dolby Vision output from MKV - Definitive answer

Discussion in 'HDD Media player(RTD 1619DR)' started by LGans316, Jun 13, 2021.

  1. LGans316

    LGans316 New Member

    My first post in this forum. So, please pardon me for any wrongdoing. :)

    I am planning to buy Zidoo Z1000 PRO. I rip my 4K discs into MKV using MakeMKV 1.15.3 and above.

    As you can see in the MediaInfo output mentioned below from Annihilation 4K disc, HDR format is Dolby Vision.

    Please can owners let me know if Zidoo Z1000 PRO can output Dolby Vision as-is to TV that supports Dolby Vision.

    Code:
    General
    Format                                   : Matroska
    Format version                           : Version 2
    File size                                : 44.0 GiB
    Duration                                 : 1 h 55 min
    Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
    Overall bit rate                         : 54.7 Mb/s
    Movie name                               : Annihilation
    Writing application                      : MakeMKV v1.16.3 win(x64-release)
    Writing library                          : libmakemkv v1.16.3 (1.3.10/1.5.2) win(x64-release)
    
    Video
    ID                                       : 1
    ID in the original source medium         : 4113 (0x1011)
    Format                                   : HEVC
    Format/Info                              : High Efficiency Video Coding
    Format profile                           : Main 10@L5.1@High
    HDR format                               : Dolby Vision, Version 1.0, dvhe.07.06, BL+EL+RPU, Blu-ray compatible / SMPTE ST 2086, HDR10 compatible
    Codec ID                                 : V_MPEGH/ISO/HEVC
    Duration                                 : 1 h 55 min
    Bit rate                                 : 50.0 Mb/s
    Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
    Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
    Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
    Frame rate mode                          : Constant
    Frame rate                               : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
    Color space                              : YUV
    Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0 (Type 2)
    Bit depth                                : 10 bits
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.251
    Stream size                              : 40.2 GiB (91%)
    Language                                 : English
    Default                                  : No
    Forced                                   : No
    Color range                              : Limited
    Color primaries                          : BT.2020
    Transfer characteristics                 : PQ
    Matrix coefficients                      : BT.2020 non-constant
    Mastering display color primaries        : Display P3
    Mastering display luminance              : min: 0.0001 cd/m2, max: 1000 cd/m2
    Original source medium                   : Blu-ray
    
    Audio #1
    ID                                       : 2
    ID in the original source medium         : 4352 (0x1100)
    Format                                   : MLP FBA 16-ch
    Format/Info                              : Meridian Lossless Packing FBA with 16-channel presentation
    Commercial name                          : Dolby TrueHD with Dolby Atmos
    Codec ID                                 : A_TRUEHD
    Duration                                 : 1 h 55 min
    Bit rate mode                            : Variable
    Bit rate                                 : 4 062 kb/s
    Maximum bit rate                         : 7 278 kb/s
    Channel(s)                               : 8 channels
    Channel layout                           : L R C LFE Ls Rs Lb Rb
    Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
    Frame rate                               : 1 200.000 FPS (40 SPF)
    Bit depth                                : 24 bits
    Compression mode                         : Lossless
    Stream size                              : 3.26 GiB (7%)
    Title                                    : Surround 7.1
    Language                                 : English
    Default                                  : Yes
    Forced                                   : No
    Original source medium                   : Blu-ray
    Number of dynamic objects                : 11
    Bed channel count                        : 1 channel
    Bed channel configuration                : LFE
    
    Audio #2
    ID                                       : 3
    ID in the original source medium         : 4352 (0x1100)
    Format                                   : AC-3
    Format/Info                              : Audio Coding 3
    Commercial name                          : Dolby Digital
    Format settings                          : Dolby Surround EX
    Codec ID                                 : A_AC3
    Duration                                 : 1 h 55 min
    Bit rate mode                            : Constant
    Bit rate                                 : 640 kb/s
    Channel(s)                               : 6 channels
    Channel layout                           : L R C LFE Ls Rs
    Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
    Frame rate                               : 31.250 FPS (1536 SPF)
    Compression mode                         : Lossy
    Stream size                              : 526 MiB (1%)
    Title                                    : Surround 5.1
    Language                                 : English
    Service kind                             : Complete Main
    Default                                  : No
    Forced                                   : No
    Original source medium                   : Blu-ray
    
    Text #1
    ID                                       : 4
    ID in the original source medium         : 4768 (0x12A0)
    Format                                   : PGS
    Codec ID                                 : S_HDMV/PGS
    Codec ID/Info                            : Picture based subtitle format used on BDs/HD-DVDs
    Duration                                 : 1 h 46 min
    Bit rate                                 : 20.8 kb/s
    Count of elements                        : 2016
    Stream size                              : 15.8 MiB (0%)
    Language                                 : English
    Default                                  : No
    Forced                                   : No
    Original source medium                   : Blu-ray
    
    Text #2
    ID                                       : 6
    ID in the original source medium         : 4769 (0x12A1)
    Format                                   : PGS
    Codec ID                                 : S_HDMV/PGS
    Codec ID/Info                            : Picture based subtitle format used on BDs/HD-DVDs
    Duration                                 : 1 h 46 min
    Bit rate                                 : 23.2 kb/s
    Count of elements                        : 2226
    Stream size                              : 17.7 MiB (0%)
    Language                                 : English
    Default                                  : No
    Forced                                   : No
    Original source medium                   : Blu-ray
    
    Menu
    00:00:00.000                             : en:Chapter 01
    00:05:08.975                             : en:Chapter 02
    00:11:39.156                             : en:Chapter 03
    00:17:06.483                             : en:Chapter 04
    00:24:08.405                             : en:Chapter 05
    00:28:59.446                             : en:Chapter 06
    00:37:24.200                             : en:Chapter 07
    00:41:59.475                             : en:Chapter 08
    00:49:11.281                             : en:Chapter 09
    00:56:06.404                             : en:Chapter 10
    01:03:22.131                             : en:Chapter 11
    01:10:24.720                             : en:Chapter 12
    01:17:21.928                             : en:Chapter 13
    01:22:20.226                             : en:Chapter 14
    01:30:25.962                             : en:Chapter 15
    01:38:48.589                             : en:Chapter 16
    01:43:58.357                             : en:Chapter 17
    01:48:14.279                             : en:Chapter 18
    
    
     
  2. Markswift2003

    Markswift2003 Well-Known Member SUPER Administrator Beta test group Contributor

    Welcome aboard!

    Short answer - Yes.

    :)
     
    LGans316 likes this.
  3. LGans316

    LGans316 New Member

    Thank you Sir. Much appreciated.

    Strictly mkv here. I hope there isn't any tiny terms and conditions at the bottom associated with your short answer :)
     
  4. OlivierQC

    OlivierQC Well-Known Member

    Good question,

    Mark will explain it all to you and he is good at explaining simply and with a lot of details at the same time
     
    LGans316 likes this.
  5. LGans316

    LGans316 New Member

    Thanks all. Looking at the table, think I am sorted. Looking forward to adding this alongside to my cheap but reliable Vero 4K+ player.
     
  6. rozel

    rozel Active Member

    You won't be disappointed :)
     
  7. OlivierQC

    OlivierQC Well-Known Member

    Hello,

    A forum is a place to exchange information and I find it important to have everyone's opinion.

    Here is a message which is on the forum Homecinema-fr and which could be important for eventual buyer and which can also bring an answer to LGans316

    It's a message from Benhur_C6 and his opinion about the DV support with the 1619DR and thanks to him.

    ''Profile 7 MEL & FEL BDMV, ISO, MKV (STDL), MP4 (STDL) is smoke and mirrors.

    It is a simple way to let believe that the Z9X reads the DV FEL & MEL, but it is completely false.

    1/ Profile 7 exists only in DTDL. This is the standard set by Dolby.

    MKV STDL and MP4 STDL is not DV. It's DV with one stream removed (because the player is unable to read 2 streams simultaneously)

    2/ Markswift2003 himself demonstrated that the Z9X ignores the FEL stream contained in a BDMV, ISO or MP4 DTDL."

    See you soon
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2021
    LGans316 likes this.
  8. LGans316

    LGans316 New Member

    Thanks @OlivierQC again. Much appreciated.

    So it's a full U-turn, Yesterday I was told Zidoo will output proper DV from MKV and now it is smoke and mirrors. I am now super confused but will wait for AV Forum member's feedback once he plays around with his unit.
     
  9. Markswift2003

    Markswift2003 Well-Known Member SUPER Administrator Beta test group Contributor

    Slight bit of misinformation there:

    1. 1/ Profile 7 exists only in DTDL. This is the standard set by Dolby.
    MKV STDL and MP4 STDL is not DV. It's DV with one stream removed (because the player is unable to read 2 streams simultaneously)


    This is completely untrue. MKV & MP4 STDL contain both layers encapsulated in one track

    2/ Markswift2003 himself demonstrated that the Z9X ignores the FEL stream contained in a BDMV, ISO or MP4 DTDL."

    True enough - although that info is slightly misleading - the video essence of the FEL isn't used (as we all well know), but the RPU (which is contained in the enhancement layer) is correctly processed and used.

    This means that MEL titles are processed the same as any BD player and FEL titles simply miss the difference information between the 12-bit stream and the 10-bit stream but the dynamic tone mapping stays intact - no big deal!

    MP4 DTDL is now supported and DV from BDMV/ISO is being worked on - it does work but at the moment it causes problems with the BD structure - this is why it was temporarily removed.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2021
    Sledgehamma, OlivierQC and LGans316 like this.
  10. LGans316

    LGans316 New Member

    I am good as long as the player is able to output DV (MEL/FEL) from MKV automatically to a DV capable TV just like my Panasonic UB820 does.
     
  11. zarathoestra

    zarathoestra Member

    Isn't it already complicated enough that everybody must have an opinion on everything . LLDV is for the same reason also not True DV. Wtf ? If my displays says DV well it's DV and for the rest LMTFA. This forum reminds me more and more like the British parlement with a bunch of third class politicians and wherever the wind blows they go with it. Thanks Mark to take your time to test everything out i know how much you spend to work everything out.
     
    Markswift2003 likes this.
  12. Markswift2003

    Markswift2003 Well-Known Member SUPER Administrator Beta test group Contributor

    I have to admit there is so much misinformation out there, not only about Dolby Vision, but also just HDR itself and what it actually is! And half of that comes from the manufacturers with their marketing bulls**t!

    It's absolutely no wonder people get confused over this stuff.
     
    LGans316, Meinie and zarathoestra like this.
  13. LGans316

    LGans316 New Member

    DV MKV works fine.
     
  14. OlivierQC

    OlivierQC Well-Known Member

    Hello,

    A new message from Benhur_C6 regarding Dolby Vision with the Zidoo and other similar devices such as the Dune HD or the Shield TV and who responds to a person who asks why his TV indicated that it is Dolby Vision if the Zidoo does not read DV as Benhur_C6 claims.

    https://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post180698495.html#p180698495

    Translated into English

    "You are twisting my words.
    It's not Dolby Vision that is wrong. m2ts, mkv or mp4 files may be good.
    What is wrong is to suggest that the FEL in those files will play on the Z9X.

    markswift2003 updated his tests in June and his findings are still that neither the Shield, nor the Dune Pro vision, nor the Z9X read FEL. https://www.avsforum.com/threads/du...onse-other-random-stuff.3188469/post-60582530

    The FEL and RPU response from my DV devices are as follows:
    1. Sony X700 UHD BluRay Player (MP4, BDMV) - Dolby Vision BL+FEL+RPU
    2. Nvidia Shield (MKV via Kodi) - Dolby Vision BL+RPU
    3. Zidoo Z9X (MKV) - Dolby Vision BL+RPU
    4. Dune HD Pro Vision 4K Solo (M2TS, ISO) - Dolby Vision BL+RPU


    note: I disagree with markswift2003 when he says that the FEL is negligible.
    For info, the FEL of "Basic Instinct" represents 20% of the total video stream.
    HDR10 stream of 50GB, dvhe.07.06 stream of 12GB, for a total video stream of 62GB
    I think that if the studio takes the trouble to burn 12Gb of FEL, it is that these 12Gb have an interest for the reconstruction of the image.


    —————-

    it is surely an endless debate, but I copy the messages for those who ask the question and want to have all information that it positive or negative

    See you soon
     
  15. OlivierQC

    OlivierQC Well-Known Member

    Hello,

    An answer from Coulson who answered one of my questions, if there is a visible difference between a bluray player with a dolby vision disc and the zidoo with a DV video file.

    Coulson from the avforum forum compared it to his OPPO clone (I assume he's talking about the Chinoppo)

    I'm glad it's an OPPO clone to compare it to the RTD1619DR devices it's even better in my opinion.

    Here is his answer

    https://www.avforums.com/threads/zi...review-comments.2365133/page-19#post-29375528

    See you soon
     
  16. LGans316

    LGans316 New Member

    Yesterday I played DV MEL and FEL MKV rips and they were fine. Serpico had black level issues but I think its source related.

    Matrix Trilogy matched UB820 but it's MEL

    Wondering what the French member is talking about.

    Basic Instinct is another incompetent encode from Studio Canal. It's got DNR and bad colour grading.
     
  17. Markswift2003

    Markswift2003 Well-Known Member SUPER Administrator Beta test group Contributor

    It's not so much that the video element of the FEL is negligible, it's just that on current displays, as long as the disc has been mastered correctly (ie following Dolby's workflow correctly) then there will be very little to choose from the two presentations - but absolutely the 12-bit version is superior, it's just you'd be hard pushed to see why unless you're scrutinising it on a 12-bit monitor.

    To quote Dolby "The base layer is a 10-bit video bitstream of the full Dolby Vision picture element"

    However, authoring a Dolby Vision disc requires a lot more validation than say an HDR10 presentation and I have seen discs where presumably this process has not been carried out correctly - as an example, Total Recall shows macroblocking in the base layer which disappears when viewing the full 12-bit stream. This shouldn't happen - there's no reason for any 10-bit encode (or indeed any encode these days!) to exhibit macro blocking. That's just poor encoding and not the fault of the Dolby Vision tech, and indeed if the Dolby Vision workflow is carried out correctly that shouldn't happen.
     
    LGans316 likes this.
  18. LGans316

    LGans316 New Member

    Quite a few Studio Canal 4K encodes have turned out bad. DV FEL comes to the rescue to mask the compression artifacts but not good enough. Numbers only mean so much.

    The irony is the 4K iTunes stream of Total Recall has no macroblocking but the disc has it lol.
     
  19. OlivierQC

    OlivierQC Well-Known Member

    Thanks for all this information Mark,

    The debate/explanation continues on homecinema-fr but I will stop sharing benhur_C6's posts to not pollute this thread and some users are also wondering about the real capabilities of the rtd1619DR to handle DV.

    For those who are interested here is the link (you just have to translate in English)
    https://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post180698950.html#p180698950

    For LGans316 I hope you got the information you need

    See you soon
     

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