Z10 - equipped with dac?

Discussion in 'ZIDOO Z10' started by Paolo_TV, Mar 29, 2019.

  1. Paolo_TV

    Paolo_TV New Member

    Hello,
    does the Z10 have a DAC?
    If I connect an old amplifier to the RCA output, can I listen to MP3 / FLAC files? What are the differences, from music point of view, with the X20 (and X20 pro)?
    Thx

    Paolo
     
  2. futeko.com

    futeko.com Member

    Yes, Z10 has a DAC, but it's integrated into the RTD1296 chipset. X20 Pro has an additional separate high-end ESS9038 DAC.

    Z10 and X20 use same RTD1296 DAC, the only difference is X20 has separate PSU and better shielding on the internal cables. So X20 will produce marginally cleaner and better audio.

    I'll leave it to others to provide a more objective opinion, but audio quality from Z9S/Z10/X20 (RTS 1296 DAC) via RCA is very good.
     
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  3. Nice Monkey

    Nice Monkey Well-Known Member Beta test group

    The SOC integrated DAC is not bad (S/N ratio is audible inferior). Using it myself with a stereo amp in a second home. Also DAC's integrated into HT AMP's are mostly OK and the sound for PCM using either setup will marginally be less than using X20 Pro for standard CD material in MP3/FLAC formats. The better the source recording the bigger the difference.

    HDaudio in PCM formats can sound considerable better provided the recording is equally good.

    DSD is another story so if you are a happy owner of some SACD's then the difference is a lot bigger. Unfortunately X20 Pro does not support DSD yet via HDMI nor via the ESS9038 DAC just conversion to 176.4 kHz 24-bit PCM via both. Did not compare myself but that already should produce a clear audible difference.

    Regarding PSU both Z9S and Z10 use an external PSU which in fact regarding shielding is the best way (specifically using an earthed external PSU). Obviously an integrated PSU looks better and is more convenient but definitely not superior for audio. Very expensive audio gear always uses external PSU's in nice matching cabinets but these are always linear and not switched mode as all Zidoo PSU units are.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019
    futeko.com and Paolo_TV like this.
  4. Valera

    Valera Member

    Yes you can, but HDMI output will be limited to 2ch, or muted at all. Some sort of high-end performance.
     
  5. Valera

    Valera Member

    All these "promising" specs and partnumbers are just bells and whistles. The actual audio performance is less than conventional cd player can provide. The music player itself looks like a pre-beta version. No solid audio performance at all.
     
  6. Nice Monkey

    Nice Monkey Well-Known Member Beta test group

    May we disagree here? The audio performance is at least on par with the average CD/DVD/BD player.

    I have a high end Pioneer BDP-LX55 which sounds better but that one even includes DSD as it is also a SACD player. In fact it is my only way today to reproduce MCH SACD with DSD output using HDMI output (Stereo output also via Analog RCA). This player fully supports SACD as it should be and lets make a choice for CD-layer/SACD-layer Stereo and SACD-layer MCH (Hybrid MCH SACD's only). I still hope media players get there one day too.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019
  7. Valera

    Valera Member

    Yes, you can. Probably, it's your job.
     
  8. zarathoestra

    zarathoestra Member

    No way a media player can beat a high end player in performing quality sound. Expectations are way too high here if this was true high end brands ( oppo- marantz - yamaha etc ) can close their stores for now. A 300 bucks player who is by the way multi functional comparing with those brands is useless.
     
  9. Valera

    Valera Member

    You are correct. Hi-fi is on another shelf. Talking about hifi sound performance is about talking about quality of the sound from the analog outputs. The media player is all about digital outputs. So I expect that the 300us media player should (must) output simple PCM seamlessly. It does not. Try to listen one cd entirely. The playback is not seamless - it plays file like it's 50 year old cd. What is the point to advertise how many cores is on the chip, while this player mostly stops playback when you turn your tv on or off. It can stop playback in about second just in the middle of the track. Neither cd player never did this way.
     
  10. Valera

    Valera Member

    By the way, my smartphone provide seamless playback of any source from flac to sacd.iso in the bit-perfecf mode. No problems at all. And there is no "hi-end" logo. Just a phone.
     
  11. zarathoestra

    zarathoestra Member

    Maybe a high end phone will sound another level higher ;) Just temper your expectations it takes a long while to get things sorted out , Dune ,Zappiti , egreat , Xiaomi etc are also still in development with the niggles also no matter what they advertise there are still mountains to climb :(
     
  12. Valera

    Valera Member

    Okay, the patience is a virtue. Lets wait for new firmware. I hope their mountains are not too high, so it will take reasonable time to release stable update.
     
  13. Nice Monkey

    Nice Monkey Well-Known Member Beta test group

    @Valera
    It seems your player has PSU problems with what you describe. Seen this with my Zidoo too. Rolling down my blinds may interrupt music playback using the standard PSU with it. :(
    Just supply it with an ample earthed and power filtered PSU (12V 5A is the right size for Z9S/Z10) and those problems are probably gone. Zidoo seems to be listening to me as Z1000 just got exactly that.
    My playback is absolutely never interrupted (as long as i stay away from the controls) even playing all day long. The command interface/system is definitely not stable yet, but even problems there are now an then only. ;)

    I disagree as I can compare Zidoo X9S with an external SABRE DAC with a top end setup including Audio Streamer/Player (far above Oppo, Marantz, Pioneer) and it comes very close. The media player when connected via USB in fact has no influence on the sound quality as long as audio streams come out fluent untouched digitally. All buffering and relevant clock stability now resides in the USB/DSD conversion feeding DAC/Analog conversion next. Commercials may try to convince otherwise. :p

    @zarathoestra
    In fact your smart phone can reach the same music quality using a top quality external DAC and matching headset. Just connect a Chord Mojo (or better) to it. :cool:

    This poor old guy is pensioned, having an electronic engineering background and a real passion for movies and music. This including the technology around it but also has a limited budget. Regular get visitors unfamiliar with quality media players and what they can all do these days. Everybody thinks they are the same thing as Android on their smart-TV (entry level media players frankly are similar).
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2019
  14. Valera

    Valera Member

    Thank you @Nice Monkey for your replay. I have no spare PSU to follow your recommendations (in fact, there is no noticable problems w/ hd video playback, which I assume is more expensive). Probably, I'll swith to the new Z1000, which has a formfactor that better suits my needs. So, lets live alone that problem. Mostly, I use phone/headamp to listen music.
     
  15. Valera

    Valera Member

    P.S. Blinds have a motor, which has a high startup current. TV's current is nothing to talk about - it rather hdmi handshake.
     
  16. Nice Monkey

    Nice Monkey Well-Known Member Beta test group

    You are correct. Turning a TV on or off for sure interrupts music playback caused by EDID. It is my experience that it does so even twice each time.

    My TV has a video sleep mode (power saving mode) which I use instead just because of that.
     
  17. zarathoestra

    zarathoestra Member

    You're correct as owner of x20 pro i believe you can reach that but i leave that to the pro' s otherwise the beta group should be overcrowded ;). On the other side there's is nothing more diverse and debatable then sound . Your ears aren't mine and vice versa , the cords , the set-up etc all make difference and the difference to a x20 pro and an oppo 205 is noticeable not by much but indeed to MY ears:p No the oppo 205 isn't mine ( i haven't got the budget for it :confused:)
     
  18. Valera

    Valera Member

    Yes, every audio component has its own character. I think that the correct setup should be transparent. So, when you change any component in the system (except cables) you should hear that character. Otherwise, system has at least one incorrect (lower level) component in the path. 500-800usd per component (amp and bookshelf speakers or headphones) is enough to build such system. And its good a idea to buy very good headphones (no compromise here) - I changed alot before found the correct ones.
     

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