Z9X 8K/Z30 PRO/Z3000 PRO/UHD8000 First Impressions

Best way imho

 

For a Projector set up with a 120 inch screen is the PQ on the 8k version really better than the Z9X Pro version player? I have a Z9X pro set up in my dedicated HT room and am very happy with it. - I have the newer JVC DLA-800 projector with the Frame to Frame DTM, so I have heard I don't need to use the LLDV conversion option on the player. I am looking at upgrading to the Z9X Pro 8k but only if the picture quality is better or a little better for watching 4k UHD movies than my current Z9X Pro player . I have a mixture of 1080 movies and 4kUHD movies but now I am just buying the 4k UHD version. So far I am getting mixed comments that the Vido quality is the same and some comments that the Video quality is better vs the older model player - ALSO I don't understand why some comments mention the Audio quality is better when I assume most owners would be transferring the audio Raw data via HDMI to the receiver, so don't understand how some are saying the audio sounds better with newer 8k version?
Any comments from actual owners who have both units would be appreciated

 

Will the BT remote for the Z9X Pro work with the 4K or is it completely different?

 

You meant 8K probably? Yes it works. I use a Zidoo V10 mini BT remote with it and I am sure the V12 BT that I use with my Z9X Pro would work too.

 

Oh if the Z2000 V12 works on the Z9X 8K, that may be a problem for me as I intend to keep both devices in my setup and using the Z9x 8K for 4K and SACD MCH via external HDD and the HDD from the Z2000 for non 4K material since my LAN speed doesn't allow for 4K Streaming over SMB. Or do they only work with the device it is paired with and i would have to manually add one to work with the other?

 

My Zidoo uhd8000 was delivered yesterday, and it will be replacing the uhd3000 (available for sale ).

Pros of the 8000 over the uhd3000:

1. Pic quality is better - the 8000 handles sdr and hdr (including dolby vision) in superior manner. It's colorful and I also seem to notice more contrast as well as if the dynamic range has been expanded.
   
2. Same can be said of the sound quality - I notice that the dynamic range has been expanded here as well. Those tiny little sounds in movie sound tracks are more noticeable now, and the impact is a lot more present.
   
3. It's also a lot more quicker to navigate around, scan library, etc. I can safely say that the 3000 is 65-70%, and the 8000 would be 100% in terms of speed.
   
4. One thing that I'm really estatic about is the forced subtitles - Oh my god, finally! It worked in all the movies I tried so far without any fuss.
   
5. The build quality is a little better as well.

Cons:

1. I tried to play FURY (file is ISO) and it couldn't load which is weird. It circles, and then back to the poster. That's the only movie that couldn't load and it played find on the 3000 so I'm wondering what's going on there.

 

Bluetooth by design pairs with only one device. I use the V12 on my Z9X Pro and the V10 mini on the Z9X 8K in the same room, both players are besides each other and each remote controls only one device, the one it's paired with, but you need two separate remotes if you don't want to keep pairing back and forth which I would not recommend since it's a hassle and it can be finicky to pair but once done it stays.

The exception I saw so far to this is the power button on the remotes. They power off and on both players at the same time for some weird reason. I discovered that because I was wondering why my players kept turning off when I was switching from one to the other. Just don't use that button, I always keep my players running anyway and they put themselves on the screensaver after some minutes (configurable).

 

I couldn't resist. One Z9X 8K ordered. I already have the BT remote, so that will be fine.

My TV, sound system and now the new Zidoo supports 8K@60hz. Are there any demo files available to try this out?

 

An example, if it can help to understand some of the issues raised :


Film concerned : Wicked Little Letters (24Hz)

ISO BR (1080p) of a very recent title --> remux mkv (using Mkvtoolnix updated v86.0)

(the file contains the video, two DTS-HD MA audio tracks, two subtitle tracks)


Playback with the Neo Alpha : No problem, everything is perfect.


1st reading with the UHD8000 v1.1.42 :
- Playback start OK
- But A/V synchronization problem, the sound is 150 ms ahead of the image
- And micro-stuttering problem because 24Hz file


I SOLVED the A/V lag problem by changing a setting on my TV


2nd reading with the UHD8000 v1.1.42 :
- Playback start OK
- A/V synchronization OK, there is no more lag.
- The micro-jerking with the 24Hz is still present.


3rd reading with the UHD8000 v1.1.47:
- Problem at the first second of starting playback : it stutters on the animated logo "Studio Canal+" and behind :
the stuttering continues throughout the movie without stopping.
BUT if I stop and resume playback, the stuttering is no longer there !
- The micro-stuttering with the 24Hz is not still present.

(IMPORTANT : These stuttering that start on the logo, ARE NOT the problem related to 24Hz :
they are more visible, and permanent, while the 24Hz problem is only seen a few seconds after the start of playback
and then only presents a single intermittent dropout. so it's due to something else !
Moreover, after a stop/resume, when the playback is normal, we can clearly see that the problem related to 24Hz
has been resolved by the firmware)


So I tried a manipulation : I bring the files back into MkvExtract and I extract side by side, the 5 streams it contains (1 video, 2 audio, 2 subtitles) :
--> Then I simply put the 5 tracks back exactly as they were just extracted in Mkvtoolnix --> remux again in an mkv file.


4th playback with the UHD8000 v1.1.47 :
with the file that I just "demux-remux"...

- Perfect playback : no more stuttering when starting playback ! And everything else is OK.


IN CONCLUSION:

- For me the A/V sync problem could be fixed by a manipulation on the TV
(even if the player has its share of responsibility in the initial problem... which did not exist on my other players)

- My remux file from an ISO was apparently perfect at the start : It ran without any problem on my Neo Alpha !

--> on the UHD8000, the passage from v1.1.42 to v1.1.47 fixed the problem of micro jerks on the 24Hz.

BUT, at the same time, v1.1.47 introduced a greater "sensitivity" (or a lower tolerance) which caused a stutter
when starting the file playback (visible at the first second of playback). Stuttering which disappears if I stop/resume playback.

- One more time, I had to solve this stuttering problem by simply doing a demux/remux of the file
(without changing any software settings, or introducing new ones), while the problem happened with the firmware
and it shouldn't have been up to me to find a solution.

==> Version 1.1.47 introduced a sensitivity of the player to a file (when starting to play it).
File that did not pose this problem at the beginning, neither with my other readers, nor with versions 1.1.38/42 of the firmware.

So here again, fortunately I was able to find a solution, BUT that does not take away from the fact that the player is responsible
for its own "tolerance" of playing the files that are offered to it.

I am the first to only use remuxes, almost all of them done by me to be sure to have the cleanest possible file.

And I am the first, when someone has a playing problem, to suggest checking the "quality" of the file with which the problem appears,
before jumping on the settings and blaming the hardware.

But the intervention on the firmware of a player, has a significant role on how the player behaves in its tolerance to imperfections
of encoding and/or muxing, of files.

And what is certain is that the corrections and adjustments made in the firmware v1.1.47 and which fixed a certain number of malfunctions,
have also affected the adaptability of the player to the content that is asked to play.

I am not a coder or developer, so I could not explain how or why, but it is a fact.

I agree that the player is not responsible for the quality of a file that is given to it to play.
But as a player dedicated to dematerialized content, and given the variety of micro-imperfections that can sometimes slip into the encoding
and/or muxing of files, it is absolutely imperative that it can demonstrate a certain tolerance.

And by "certain tolerance", we agree that I do not expect it to be able to play anything and everything without flinching,
nor with the same flexibility of adaptation as a desktop computer...
but only that it does not choke on the 1/100th of a grain of sand, where other players adapt without problem !

 

Interesting… might explain the A/V sync issue I have. I also mkvtoolnix resync all the mkvs done by makemkv because I add description to tracks for one thing.

Which version of mkvtoolnix did you use?

 

v86.0

 

Since I ditched M2TS and remuxed them to MKV.........no more stuttering, no more audio lag, no more freezing on the image!!!!
So goodbye to ISO!!

 

In fact, things are not that simple...

It may seem strange, but for a long time I solved a lot of reading problems by doing the opposite :

I "obtained" mkv remuxes, and since they were remuxes precisely, I thought I had perfect files.
However, I often had small playing problems, generally some stuttering, but which did not always appear in the same way.

So instinctively, I made my own remuxes from the ISOs of the disks, but by encapsulating them in m2ts
to keep the native container of the streams, as they are encapsulated on the disks.

And it often worked : many of my mkv remuxes that I had problems with, no longer caused problems once remuxed into m2ts...

It didn't solve everything, but let's say that 8 times out of 10, it fixed things, even if I didn't really know how to explain why.

And then at one point I had a discussion with @Markswift2003 , who explained to me that in fact, the m2ts container
was not made to be outside the ISO/BDMV structure. And that mkv was much more appropriate for this use.

And so I started to make my remuxes in mkv again.

And the fact is that when I make my remuxes myself from a disk, I almost never have any playback problems.

But with time and experience, I realized that mkv remuxes, depending on their creation steps, did not all result in perfect playback.
I thought for a long time that an ISO, whether I created it myself from a disk, or retrieved it elsewhere, remained an ISO,
a clone of the disk and therefore that it was in all cases "perfect".

And to put it simply, I noticed that the following processes did not all give identical files
(assuming that we start with the same source title each time) :

Disk -> ISO -> remux mkv
? -> ISO -> remux mkv
Disk -> remux mkv
ISO -> remux mkv -> demux -> remux mkv
? -> remux mkv
? -> remux mkv -> demux -> remux mkv

(the "question mark" is to respect the forum rules)

At the end we are supposed to end up with the "same" remux mkv, except that, depending on which remux is play
by one player or another, playing will not happen in the same way.

So this proves two things :

1/ Even if the remux is a simplified operation and respects the integrity of the streams, since it just operates
a change of container without touching the tracks, it can slip into the remux processes of micro-imperfections
(which I do not have the knowledge to explain).

2/ But what I know is that these micro-imperfections, depending on the tolerance of the player
(which depends on both its hardware and its firmware) will make that an mkv remux will be play without problem,
where the other, although in theory identical, will not pass correctly.

So yes, in principle, it is up to the user to ensure to give the "perfect" file to be read by his player.
But we know very well that in the field of dematerialized, the origin and diversity of the files that we play
are such that it is also very important to have a player capable of adapting a minimum to the small imperfections
that can slip into the file structure.

I think that it is up to the developers at some point to find the right compromise between precision and playing performance,
and a reasonable tolerance to imperfections.

(A bit like during the heyday of CD players, where we had high-end manufacturers, who at the level of signal shaping
just before N/A conversion, reduced so much (or even completely eliminated) the buffer stages to gain in performance,
but at the cost of players that at the slightest defect of the disk, however tiny it may be, would block...)

 

Hello,

How is the speed of the Z9X 8K (6GB RAM) vs the UHD8000 (8GB RAM) for operations and poster loading? Is it noticeable? And how does it compare to last generation Z9X Pro? I really want a UHD8000 but may just grab the Z9X8K instead. Thanks!!

 

Anyone using their new box to output everything as SDR rec.709 using VS10? Visible improvements? I'm experiencing clipping in bright highlights with previous Z9X and the Pro. However i still prefer that picture overall compared to LLDV and my Sony projector in HDR mode. Blacks look deeper and more punch in colours when using VS10 engine to convert HDR to SDR. @Markswift2003 Any input?

 

There's a very definite and measurable improvement in VS10 SDR in the 8K models - you get much better tone mapping at the top end and L2 trims are more accurately reproduced in VS10 SDR even than they are in native LLDV.

 

That actually sounds really exciting! Please explain "L2 trims"..

 

Converting Dolby Vision to both HDR10 and SDR with VS10 has always used the DV metadata, but a stupid bug that has always been present in LLDV is that a certain trim, Chroma Weight, is ignored. Chroma Weight controls the level of overall colour saturation.

Stacey Spears even included a hidden pattern on his latest disc to test for it - I think his idea was to get the AV press interested in it enough to make a fuss but I don't think it gained any traction.

The Zidoo, like every other device, UHD BluRay players included, ignores this trim pass in Dolby Vision, but, if you use VS10 to convert DV to SDR then this trim pass is actually used - Stacey's test pattern shows this very clearly.

This only happens in VS10 DV to SDR (not HDR10). Crazy.

 

I tried the Z9X 8K out for a few hours yesterday. I mixed it up before, so obviously my setup only handles 4K, but I have to say that the Z9X 8K feels like a much more polished product compared to the Z9X Pro (which I was mostly happy with).

All in all, the new 8K is probably the best media streamer I ever had.

 

Personally since I only use 'MakeMkv' to remux, I have no problem.........which is not the case with ISO and M2ts!!