Z9X 8K Dolby VS10 is worse than Z9X Pro and Dune 8K

First of all. Sorry for my English. It's not my native.

Last 2 days I compared my new Zidoo Z9X 8K to my previous Zidoo Z9X Pro and also Dune 8K. The capture card was used for all comparisons. The first thing I noticed was how the Dolby VS10 engine has changed. I really like using this thing with my projector for tonemapping, but something has gotten worse on new model.

I compared Dolby VS10 on my Zidoo Z9X Pro (Realtek) to Dune HD Pro One 8K Plus (Amlogic 928) also and it was absolutely identical. There is no difference at all. So thats not new SOC or something like that.

For example HDR10 -> VS1- > SDR:

First test patterns:

0-1000 nits:
Z9X Pro:

Z9X 8K:

Red looks better on 8K, but yellow, cyan, green, magenta looks worse. Red on real content also look worse. Colors are a bit more saturated on 8K.


900-4000 nits:
Z9X Pro:

Z9X 8K:

Red is on par. Yellow is worse on 8K, but less dull. Cyan, green, magenta are clipping (much worse) on 8K. Magenta also looks better on Pro.

700-8500 nits:
Z9X Pro:

Z9X 8K:


White and Cyan clip at 4000 on Pro model. The Yellow is on par, but less dull on 8K. Cyan, green, magenta are clipping (much worse) on 8K. The blue color is overexposed on 8K. On the Pro, the colors are more dull.

P.S. If I set the colors to RGB, the clipping gets even worse at Z9X 8K. On Z9X Pro there is no difference.

Now let's get back to the real scenes:
Z9X Pro:

Z8X 8K:

As you can see Red is also worse on 8K on real scenes. A lot less details.

Z9X Pro:

Z9X 8K:

It's a little brighter on 8K, but there's a lot more clipping and loss of detail.

Z9X Pro:

Z9X 8K:

Colors are more saturated on 8K, but there is much less detail in the faces of Harry's parents..

Z9X Pro:

Z9X 8K:

Again. More saturated, but much less detailed.

Z9X Pro:

Z9X 8K:

Look at the green color. On 8K it has loss almost all detail.

Z9X Pro:

Z9X 8K:

8K loss all details on orange and some details on red. Colors looks are more saturated on 8K.

Z9X Pro:

Z9X 8K:

The colors look much more saturated and less natural on 8K.

 

Z9X Pro:

Z9X 8K:

Less detail and more flat on Z9X 8K

Some movies looks dimmer, than on previous model AND also have some green tint to all content:

Z9X Pro:

Z9X 8K:


Z9X Pro:

Z9X 8K:

Z9X Pro:

Z9X 8K:

Z9X Pro:

Z9X 8K:


And much more...

It's a big downgrade for me. Clipping at some colors are really bad. I request the Zidoo team to fix this somehow, as the Dune on the same SOC does not have this problem.

P.S. I didn't test Dolby Vision -> VS10 -> SDR, but test pattern looks promising:

HDR10:

DV:

 

That's odd! I my case, going from a Z10 to a Z30, I had huge improvement in colors, sharpness, brightness, detailed video and audio. The Z30 still have a few bugs occasionally, such as a reboot or a cracking sound when start playing a movie (but very, very rarely) which will corrected in future firmware updates.

 

@SpykeSIK non of your images are showing!

EDIT: My pihole blocks them.

 

I had also noticed this over-emphasis on the whites, but I hadn't dared to talk about it!!! Thank you for this work..........hope this will be taken into account!

 

wow, that is a shame. I read how someone pointed out how their DV was brighter on the older one than the new 8k version.

 

@Markswift2003

I was also able to confirm this phenomenon between Z9X Pro and Z9X 8K.
Has this already been communicated to Zidoo, or can we assume that the developers already know about it and are working on a fix?

 

@SpykeSIK

Was the picture A.I. switched on?
Were the other settings of the players the same?
For example, were the Chroma YCbCr and bit depth settings the same?

 

This post and its observations are in regards to VS10 SDR only so does not relate to native HDR10 or Dolby Vision handling which I presume you are both referring to.

Difficult to comment on as my results differ dramatically from the OP's - for example, below are results using the Mehanik 240-1000 nit HDR test pattern as used above for comparison (results are nits, not code values).

​

Although red, cyan and magenta results aren't great, they are still in excess of diffuse white at 200nits so only affect specular highlights, and then only in the lower right corner of the CIE graph.

Admittedly I'm on a later firmware so it's possible something may have changed there.

However, if I use Spears & Munsil test patterns, results differ again so I'm not sure how much I trust the Mehanik patterns.

My go to real world test for SDR tone mapping is Wall-E at around 21 minutes when the ship explodes and tips over - the hull is a very good place to be looking as that happens.

The Zidoo 8K handles this better than the older boxes (Z9S and Z9X Pro) and indeed handles it much better than the Dune 8K.

In all cases, the HDR10 version is tone mapped better than the DV version, which tells you more about Dolby Vision than it does about the boxes!!

But as I say the Dune is way worse, particularly with Dolby Vision. I suspect this is more to do with the Dune's RPU handling than the actual tone mapping because there are some serious problems in the way it handles the RPU at certain values of T_MaxPQ in the Dolby VSDB and VS10 uses the RPU in both HDR and SDR conversion.


Clips (posted under Fair Use) here if anyone's interested:

https://mega.nz/folder/weQl3IQR#Mph2zioIxcYYZ2LQ4CKsGQ

 

@SpykeSIK can you tell me the movie and time code for this clip please:

 

Google lens tells me it's from The Meg

 

Yes, all the A.I. toggles were off. But some extra sharpness on the Z9X 8K was there. Well known problem on AML 928 SOCs. The rest of the settings were the same. But I can confirm that RGB Chroma on Z9X 8K was worse on test patterns and clipped more.

It's a Meg at 00:01:27.

I used the latest public beta of the Z9X 8K (1.47) for my testing.

I won't be able to do a comparison for a while as I sent my Z9X 8K to @DMDreview for review.

This is true for the Z9X Pro, but not in all cases. Some movies were really dark through HDR10 -> VS10 -> SDR. For example Passengers, Alita, Valerian, 65, Godzilla vs Kong, etc.

Movie "65", 00:02:29:
Z9X Pro:
1080p SDR Blu-ray:

HDR10:

DV:


DV -> VS10 -> SDR is a lot closer to original SDR on Blu-ray.

For comparison same scene on Z9X 8K:

HDR10 (even darker and worse than on Z9X Pro):


DV:


Another scene from "65", 00:10:43:
Z9X Pro:
1080p SDR Blu-ray:


HDR10:


DV:


Z9X 8K for comparison:
HDR10:


DV (look at those green tint!):


I've compared many movies and different scenes on both players. And I can confidently say that Z9X Pro HDR10 -> VS10 -> SDR is much better than Z9X 8K. No doubt about it. Maybe the problem is the new Dolby SDK or something like that.

I can upload any test videos I used.

 

Great - thank you - will test and come back tomorrow...

 

My 2 cents about Dolby Vision -> VS10 -> SDR on Z9X 8K:

Overall, it's not as bad as HDR10 -> VS10 -> SDR. In some scenes it looks almost the same as the Z9X Pro. But in scenes with bright highlights, it tries to expose all the details and makes the picture so dark...

For comparison:

Movie "The Meg",

00:01:24:
Z9X Pro DV:


Z9X 8K DV:


00:01:27:
Z9X Pro DV:


Z9X 8K DV:


00:02:37:
Z9X Pro DV:

Z9X 8K DV:


And Aquaman scene on Z9X 8K DV - >VS10 -> SDR, for example:
1 - the brightness is ok:


2 - the brightness is significantly dimmer:


3 - the brightness is really bad:


4 - good brightness again:


And this brightness jump happens in just 10-second period. It's hard to watch and it breaks the whole balance of the scene.

I just want the old VS10 algortim on my new Z9X 8K and no green tint)))

Thank you. We'll be waiting.

 

Interesting - never used the VS10 engine on any box for conversion to SDR, so, useful clips, from a technical point of view.

 

Hello I don't have an example but my brother and me I feel the same thing the z9x had a brighter image than the 8k as on the captures above there is like a dark veil it lacks brilliance

 

Clips (posted under Fair Use) here if anyone's interested:

https://mega.nz/folder/weQl3IQR#Mph2zioIxcYYZ2LQ4CKsGQ
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I'm going to test them this evening on my JVC NZ7, one in LLDV and the other in HDR10...........we'll see tomorrow!

 

Cool - pay particular attention to the hull of the ship that tips over - if tone mapped incorrectly most of the detail is lost in a red haze.

Although, again, this thread is about VS10 conversion to SDR, not native HDR10/DV or VS10 HDR10/DV.

But it's a good test for all modes, as is the Aquaman clip which is a well known test clip with MDL of 4000/0050 and MaxCLL of 1506nits. The circular window detail is particularly problematic. The clip is at 50:21.

 

I will make sure.........

 

That's exactly what I want too.
I would like to replace the Z9X Pro with the Z9X 8K, but of course I don't want to compromise on image quality!
I ONLY use the VS10 and output EVERYTHING in SDR.
The cherry on top would be an SDR with BT.2020 mode like the Panasonic UHD players have!
I also still lack the option of the older Zidoos in 8K, where after a frame rate adjustment, the playback of the film is delayed by 5s/10s/15s etc. to bridge the new very long handshake with, for example, JVC projectors.
This is still missing in the new ones and I hope it will come back!