v1.2.22, v1.2.22_G Beta version for Z9X 8K/Z30 PRO/Z3000 PRO/UHD8000 (UPDATE)

When I play videos, the first few seconds of audio get cut off. Maybe it’s been an issue for a while and I didn’t start noticing until I began watching TV shows where the dialogue starts immediately. I tried adjusting HDMI “delay playback” in settings but that had no impact. Match frame rate is on and the Z9X8K is connected to a Marantz AVR. I’d be grateful for suggestions.

 

The slow motion audio /Video for 3 secs or so after pausing a movie , seems only if the pause is long enough to trigger SS mode . Short pauses seem a lot better at starting back up ...probably because it hasnt had an hdmi synch to change to SS mode

 

Thank you for this. The delay I’m experiencing is right when I start playing the file from the beginning.

 

Thank you very much, Mark for your comments. I reread your original post and realized that I must FIRSTLY pause the video, then select the side menu and your advanced settings will then reveal itself!. This is a valuable hidden gem!. Thank you for pointing this out

 

Is your receiver changing to a different output sound mode due to the change in input sound codec that it is now processing? Most likely since the video is starting and you don't hear audio it is an issue with whatever processes your sound. ... what happens if once you hear audio properly, you then immediately chapter back to the beginning of the tv show? If it is fully audible right from the start, it is due to your receiver now still using the same output sound mode.

 

If you have a movie with DD+ sound track, the Z9X 8K will stop outputting a valid DD+ bitstream any time you seek. The receiver will revert to PCM decode and once you skip back to the beginning, the receiver will take a second or so to lock onto the DD+ bitstream and unmute. It's very frustrating and Zidoo should be able to fix that by sending out DD+ silence frames during a seek so that the receiver does not lose bitstream sync.

 

I tried DD+ files and DD+ with Atmos files and all had no issues seeking forward and backward (also pausing, slipping chapters). During seek the receiver remained locked to DD+.

When your receiver reverts to PCM I assume you get silence?

 

Correct, it's silent.

I'm using a Yamaha RX-V683. I have an ancient Denon AVR-2807 in storage, but I can't test with it because it needs a new voltage regulator. I've got the part, but I recently moved and now I can't find it.

I have the up/down keys mapped to seek 15 seconds. That's how I normally seek in a file, but I tested other methods with results that are substantially the same. Here are my results when playing a DD+ file with Atmos. The format listed is what the receiver reports in the on screen display.

• In HT, on TV show screen, just before I start playback: PCM 2.0, 48kHz, silence
• Start playback - silence and black screen while HDMI sync takes place. About 1 ~ 2 seconds later, DD+ 5.1, 48kHz, sound starts about the same time as picture unblanks.
• Pause playback - about 1 second of unrecognised format, then audio switches to PCM 2.0, 48kHz, silence (same as HT UI)
• Unpause playback, about 2 seconds of unrecognised format and silence, then DD+ 5.1, 48kHz, sound starts
• Press up to seek +15 seconds, about 3 seconds of unrecognised format and silence, then DD+ 5.1, 48kHz, sound starts
• Hold left to seek to start of file, about 4 seconds of unrecognised format and silence, then DD+ 5.1, 48kHz, sound starts
• Hold right to seek about 1/4 into the file, about 3 seconds of unrecognised format and silence, then DD+ 5.1, 48kHz, sound starts
• Hold down to repeatedly seek -15 seconds, about 3 seconds of unrecognised format and silence, then PCM 2.0, 48kHz, silence
• Hold up to repeatedly seek +15 seconds, about 3 seconds of unrecognised format and silence, then PCM 2.0, 48kHz, silence

To summarise, any time I seek, the audio output switches to PCM 2.0, 48kHz silence. The receiver takes about 3 seconds to switch between codecs and during that time displays unknown signal and is silent.

I could record a video of this happening, if it will help, but that seems like the above explanation should be sufficient.

 

I decided to retest with the display resolution and frame rate locked to 3840 x 2160 60p. Same results, except that I avoid the HDMI sync at the start of playback and see exactly the same thing as if I unpaused.

 

I replicated this exactly with the exception of using a Denon receiver and of course a different file, but with DD+ Atmos.

Started the kit from cold, so receiver defaults to stereo PCM

• Start HT > receiver reports Stereo PCM, silence
• Start playback - silence and black screen while HDMI sync takes place. About 1 ~ 2 seconds later, DD+ 5.1*, sound starts about the same time as picture unblanks.
• Pause playback - receiver still reports DD+ (but 5.1 speaker icon disappears)
• Unpause playback, picture resumes, sound starts after approx 1s, DD+ 5.1
• Press up to seek +15 seconds, receiver reports DD+ (no 5.1 icon) and 1-2s later sound resumes, DD+ 5.1 reported
• Hold left to seek to start of file, DD+ 5.1 reported during seek because audio is still playing, file resumes at start in DD+ 5.1 after approx 1-2s silence during which receiver reports DD+ (no 5.1 icon)
• Hold right to seek about 1/4 into the file, same as above, sound resumes in DD+ after a 1-2s delay on releasing the right key
• Hold down to repeatedly seek -15 seconds, same as above, sound resumes in DD+ after a 1-2s delay
• Hold up to repeatedly seek +15 seconds, same as above, sound resumes in DD+ after a 1-2s delay
• The receiver will only report Stereo PCM once playback is stopped completely and return to UI

Does your receiver have a way to switch audio source from Auto > HDMI > Optical > Analogue?

If so, and it's set to "Auto", try setting discretely to "HDMI".

I have mine set discretely to "HDMI" out of habit because I've had issues in the distant past with HDMI audio on other boxes - I forget exactly what, but probably similar to what you describe - but with this box I get exactly the same behaviour I describe above if the receiver's audio input is set to "Auto".


* It's DD+ 5.1 on a DD+ Atmos file because I don't have Atmos speakers on my test kit.

 

It sounds like the same behaviour, with the exception that on your Denon the last codec mode is kept and the output is muted when there is no valid signal. On the Yamaha, the codec is additionally reset to default PCM 2.0.

There is only the option to assign an audio source to each input. My Z9X 8K is connected to HDMI1 and the audio input is also set to HDMI1. The Yamaha does not have the same signal search capability that some Denons have. About the only other settings I can find on the RX-V683 is an option to set the DSP decode type to Auto, Dolby Surround or three different DTS options. Switching between Auto and Dolby makes no difference (I think this option is only used to map the decoded signal to speakers and apply DSP effects, not to select the input codec). There is another option that is input specific, called Decoder Mode and you can either leave it on Auto or select DTS. If you force DTS, you get silence, since the stream can not be decoded as DTS, but the info screen still shows the input format as DD+ 5.1.

tl;dr: There's nothing I can set on the Yamaha RX-V683 to improve the situation.

Same here, I don't have Atmos speakers either.

What's needed to make this work better is for the Zidoo to have the capability to output silence using the currently active audio codec, instead of not outputting any audio or switching to a different format. i.e valid frames of DD+ 5.1 with Atmos bitstream, that have zero samples for all channels. I don't know how the AML SDK works, but with BCM you could send silence frames that you compiled in as binary blobs, you didn't have to have a license to transcode to Dolby. The only tricky part was using the correctly formatted silence for each combination of codec and channels.

 

Thanks very much for the explanation. This is exactly what’s happening to me. Is there a way to delay playback for a few seconds (in the Zidoo) to prevent this from happening? Or is there a setting in my AVR that could help?

 

As I have already written about this 10 times and even opened a thread in February, I have to say that it also affects normal DD audio tracks.

I must also say that the fact that the channels are not displayed on the AVR during the pause has nothing to do with it, the same happens with DTS (HD, HD MA) tracks, but they start without delay. I don't notice any delay with Dolby True HD Atmos either.

There is nothing you can do, just wait for the fix from Zidoo. I reported this to Support months ago, so I'll ask about it straight away.

 

Well, since you have a Marantz.. that should be just like my Denon... Like Mark mentioned in his post above.. go into your Marantz menu and make sure your Zidoo input for Audio is manually associated with HDMI and not Auto .. that way it won't waste time looking for other possible types of Audio input methods for your Zidoo. Then try to use 1 particular output sound mode for the majority of the possible incoming sound codecs coming from the Zidoo.....

I use DSU for most all of my incoming sound codecs, or you could choose DTS Neural:X or? .... and once a different incoming sound codec is being played from the Zidoo.. such as dolby digital or PCM or DD+, pick your favorite output mode to associate the receiver with it... that will eliminate any delay in switching to another sound ouput mode..

Like it or not, there will always have to be some sort of delay if you make a switch to something totally different like Stereo, Or PCM output for PCM input.. etc. But associating your favorite output sound mode with the majority of sound codecs that your files are played in should really help..

 

Super helpful. I really appreciate your taking the time to explain everything. I had assigned the Zidoo input to HDMI in the Marantz and used DTS-HD as my default codec for menus and video tracks and 2-3 seconds still get cut off from the beginning. It’s most noticeable with a show like Seinfeld where the dialogue begins immediately. I can rewind or go back to the start of the first chapter and all is good but I can’t seem to start videos at the true beginning.

 

Hi! I have a Yamaha pre-processor (A5100) and I don't have all these issues. I output HDMI audio to "RAW" from the Zidoo. I sometimes have the silence, but it always goes back to the correct codec playback (any kind)

 

Almost - I can see the audio output info in realtime on my Vertex and audio output from the Zidoo immediately reverts to Stereo PCM on any trick play - pause, skip chapter, skip 15s etc, (obviously not on timeline scrubbing because audio is still playing as you do that) but it takes a second for the Denon to report this. It's not keeping the codec, it's just that the reporting is slightly delayed.

Yesterday the mistake I made was not to pause long enough to notice this. What happens when you pause is that the Denon goes from DD+ with 5.1 speaker icon to DD+ with no speaker icon and then almost immediately to Stereo PCM - I just didn't wait for the Stereo PCM bit - or I failed to notice... When you skip chapter or skip 15s etc, the process is so quick that here isn't time for the Denon's display to react, but I can see it switch to PCM with the Vertex.

When trick play stops, and playback resumes, the Zidoo outputs DD+ once again, and the Denon starts to decode that once again which obviously is upsetting your Yamaha.

I've gone back to previous models with three different Realtek SOCs - Z9S (1296), Z9X (1619DR) and Z9X Pro (1619BPD) and they all continue to send the codec on trick play, so it's just the AML devices doing this.

I also checked on a Dune AML box and it also retains the codec info, so it's not a SOC issue.

Will pass this to the devs as a bug.

@blenky - you have a similar problem with AC3 don't you? Can you remind me what that was?

 

Thanks so much for nailing this down. Fingers crossed the devs can figure this one out quickly and get a fix out.

 

dont know if some one else has adressed this. but the stuttering on serie episode is almost flawless now.

sometime (pretty often, seems to have with how long i paus) if i pause the episode i need to reboot the player or restart episode to get rid of handshake and the stuttering every few minutes. sometimes the restart episode works and sometimes i need to reboot the player (3000z)

 

I tried RAW and the behaviour is exactly the same as Auto. And yes, my Yamaha AVR also goes back to the correct codec, but only after a two second delay after the Zidoo switches the output to the correct format. This switching is exactly the same in Auto mode and in RAW mode. This happens with all audio formats, other than MPEG & AAC, which the Zidoo always decodes to PCM, it does not have to be DD+.