Review: Zidoo NEO S

Discussion in 'HDD Media player(RTD 1619DR)' started by ChrisMu, Oct 29, 2022.

  1. muha

    muha Active Member

    I am still in the States, Z10Pro is used by my friend back home.
     
  2. Nice Monkey

    Nice Monkey Well-Known Member Beta test group

    rozel, Markswift2003 and muha like this.
  3. rozel

    rozel Well-Known Member

    That's why I appreciate the work Amir does on the Audio Science review, amongst others - they measure which makes the subjectivity a little unimportant. And it's why I'm calling for Zidoo to send Amir a Zidoo player. Any chance either you or @Nice Monkey could ask Zidoo to consider this?
     
  4. rozel

    rozel Well-Known Member

    Hey @muha good to hear from you :)
     
    muha likes this.
  5. ChrisMu

    ChrisMu Member

    :):)
     
  6. ChrisMu

    ChrisMu Member

    Upgrading Zidoo Neo S Internal Ssd To 1TB
    Link video for DIY
     
  7. rozel

    rozel Well-Known Member

  8. Nice Monkey

    Nice Monkey Well-Known Member Beta test group

    @rozel;
    Would have been much nicer if compared with a top of the line DAC used as a reference as a 3rd column.
    Maybe you have found measurements for one from the same tester and can add it?

    No real surprises for me here. XLR and RCA results are more or less as expected by me and measurement results more in line with my expectation than the Zidoo specifications. RCA is measured below claims which doesn't surprise me. This holds even more true for the headset outputs. If you want an excellent headset integrated then get hold of a Neo X while these are still available.

    Also resistance to jitter is not topnotch which also has to do with the Neo S DAC input circuitry design. You need a Neo X or Neo Alpha for that (even UHD3000 would score better here most likely). But keep in mind db values over -110 db are very good and not audible by almost any person (keep in mind the hearing varies a lot among humans and is extremely influenced by age).

    The digital filters do what they are expected to do. The higher Neo models have 7 not just 3. I am too old to hear those tiny differences. Anyway mostly perceived only using a very high quality headset (by above all young(er) listeners).

    Any specific questions or doubts?
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2022
  9. rozel

    rozel Well-Known Member

    Ohhh, thank you so much Nice, very much appreciated. Hmmm - I'll have to review the jitter figures to those of my Gustard X-16 to better understand. My former Kit-DAC suffered a bit in this department. But at last we have a proper measurement of a Zidoo - given @ChrisMu has just reviewed his NEO S, I'd welcome his thoughts also.

    Thanks again for taking the time to look over the report

    Edit: - What would you put forward, make and model-wise, that represents a Top of the Line DAC?
     
  10. Nice Monkey

    Nice Monkey Well-Known Member Beta test group

    Nice video and very professionally executed swap. ;)

    Zidoo says SSD supported up to 1 TByte but I have no idea where that comes from? This else than being validated up to that size now. I don't see an immediate reason why any SSD of any bigger size meeting the interface specifications would not work?

    Frankly I do expect SSD's to gradually approach prices/Tbyte of HDD's over the coming years.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2022
  11. Nice Monkey

    Nice Monkey Well-Known Member Beta test group

    I can talk of experiences from me and others using standard available market components only.
    http://forum.zidoo.tv/index.php?thr...ther-knowhow-for-hifi-players-playback.86336/
    Chapter-10 is about what it requires. The various measurements done here are very much in line with my main variables mentioned.
    The Neo X DAC+ Headphone AMP is about the best design I can think of using only off-the-shelf components (maybe with an AKM DAC?). Yes as strange it may sound it beats the Neo Alpha here for sure. Can I also hear the difference between X and Alpha? The answer is hardly and I probably fail blind A/B tests is somebody would do these with me.

    The real expensive stuff typically uses dedicated chips for inputs circuits, DAC and digital DSP based filters next to big/huge linear PSU's. Only extensive listening plus smart measurements can reveal how good these things really are.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2022
  12. rozel

    rozel Well-Known Member

    Thank you @Nice Monkey - your experiences are much welcomed and allow us "unqualified" Audiophiles to make better and better judgemnts on what to purchase.
     
  13. mirror

    mirror Well-Known Member SUPER Administrator Zidoo TECH Supporter

    Will do it for Eversolo DACs
     
  14. rozel

    rozel Well-Known Member

    Thank you! I've been away but have now done some more research. I had not appreciated that the EverSolo DAC-Z8 is in reality, a Zidoo product and I see a Sub-Forum has been opened but not yet populated.

    I'm very interested in learning more on this product
     
  15. rozel

    rozel Well-Known Member

    I would be interested to hear what other Audiophiles think about the EverSolo DAC-Z8.

    I'm extremely tempted to get one to team up with my Z1000 Pro, if for no other reason but to integrate within my Harmony Remote setup. Maybe @Nice Monkey could explain a little more what the Sabre ESS9068Pro DAC brings to the table? I know it's has 8-channel technology but why, in a two channel DAC?
     
  16. Nice Monkey

    Nice Monkey Well-Known Member Beta test group

    SABRE ESS series DAC's all are 8-channel capable but to compensate design tolerances for 24-bit conversion DAC designs often bundle 4 or 8 channels to a single output. This averages out build tolerances to a certain degree. Hence the deployment of one or two chips for stereo output only. Full HT 8-channel DAC's may even use 4 SABRE chips for exactly that same reason. We see this design above all in top of the line CD and UHD-BD players with discrete 8-channel analog outputs.

    About using 2 DAC chips being one for each channel: This looks like a superior design as optimal channel separation is guaranteed. In practice very critical listeners often experience the dual design though as slightly inferior to a good single chip design using the same brand and model DAC chip. This can in theory be explained by very minor deviations in sound reproduction deploying 2 chips.

    The EverSolo DAC-Z6 design is closest to the one used in UHD3000 and the EverSolo DAC-Z8 is more closer the one used in Neo Alpha but I don't read it uses the top segment femto clocks and neither linear PSU's so i position it design wise just below it for now.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2022
  17. rozel

    rozel Well-Known Member

  18. ChrisMu

    ChrisMu Member

    ZIDOO NEO S - HEAT PROBLEMS SOLVED - How to play music continuosly 24 hours without interruption

    Well, it may surprise many of you because I am a special case, so to speak, a music fan playing and living with music rather then taking care of a family and children, so I may be the only one playing music with Zidoo Neo S so much time ... actually I just wish to hear music no matter I doing work, job, eat or sleep ... I just wanted something, some player which can do that and Zidoo can do that but in certain conditions.

    First let me explain what I found after 3 hours of uninterrupted play: high temperature on a nano-transistor.

    In order to find out this information I had to do all the combinations of possible tests (with the top aluminium lid on), namely: activated and disabled save-screen, activated or disabled the VU-meters, remove and plugin the internet cable during the audition ... and absolutely nothing gave results except one thing: I set aside the upper aluminium lid. Once I did this, the device can play 12-24 hours or even non-stop.

    From here it can only result in one conclusion: something on the motherboard is still heating. The processor does not, because it has a good radiator, ... other integrated circuits no, because there is no hot air from them, but, there is a set of nano-transistors that are in series with the audio signal and have the role to interrupt/switch at the command of the switch from Dac to HDMI (also supplemented with a micro-mechanical switch with gold contacts that are heard doing click click).

    Nobody knows what those nano-transistor are and will never find them

    And because they are so small the hot air flow cannot detected or measured with the IR thermometer, because the IR rase is thicker than the nanotransistor and gives errors. Given the results, my only possibility is to listen to music without the top cover aluminum lid. If I do not do this, then not only the interruptions will appear, but there is the risk that those nano-transistors, invisible with the naked eyes, may irreversible change parameters and permanently interrupt the signal and then that would mean the failure of the motherboard.

    Only some laser IR thermometers, through extremely careful measurements of the heated air nanovolumes, can offer some clues. But still it will be useless, because the nanotransistors cannot be seen with the naked eye, besides the fact that they are directly embedded on the wiring ... so those can not be replaced but the entire motherboard.

    However, considering that it goes absolutely without any interruption for over 12 hours, for me as a user I am super-satisfied.

    Sometime next year I will be able to build another lid, through laser technology, at perfectly identical dimensions, and then make a set of parallel slots to eliminate hot air. I will make a technical drawing, an execution project and I will buy an iron sheet of the same thickness.

    About 3 hours goes well and with the original aluminium lid, so users who are not fans like me, and who would not listen more than 2 hours without break, would never get to notice these problems. I, ... I could say, ... I am a unique case, but at the same time my expertise could be useful to both users and producers.

    So the conclusion is that except for the heat problem, Zidoo Neo S is working excellent and if using without the top lid cover, then it plays 24 hours continuously without any problems.
     
  19. ChrisMu

    ChrisMu Member

    Very interesting assumption ! The only problem is that a 2 TB SSD price is almost half the price I paid for the Zidoo itself ... so I am very afraid to invest in such an expensive hardware (maybe in the near future) just to see it works or not ... if it doesn't work, then a lot of money will be wasted.
     
  20. ChrisMu

    ChrisMu Member

    View attachment 10357 View attachment 10358 View attachment 11040 View attachment 11041 View attachment 11041 View attachment 10357 View attachment 10358 View attachment 11040 Why is it not recommended use electronic devices, such as Zidoo Neo S, heating too much

    There is a repetitive phenomenon, namely, let's say that the 3 hours (which seem to be the limit above which the heating of the components produces disturbances), are used for audition/watching a film/concert, etc ... after which the device is stopped. Someone told me that if I would not use more than 3 hours the NEO S, then there are no heating problems and that is true.

    However, repeated heating, on a daily use bases, produces a thermal disorder in the semiconductor junctions that changes, slowly, gradually and irreversibly, the crystalline physical structure (nanometric enhanced with foreign atoms to create the semiconductor effects).

    This means that all those atoms, which seem very fixed in the crystalline geometry (forming a network) begin to slightly change their position or even detach from the network, because the thermal agitation is like a "seismic" shock wave (as if we shake a dose of beer before opening it) and they will never return to the original place.

    This does not mean that the electrons will no longer be able to circulate through there, but they will form currents and tensions that will no longer fit into the parameters of the electrical schematics and from that moment on it is like a snowball that grows and makes an avalanche. Very briefly said - this is called accelerated thermal aging.

    Let us now imagine that these 3 hours of maximum limit heating is repeated 365 times ... in a year. The structural changes of the crystalline recipes of the nanocomponents and transistors become cumulative over time and just as the expiration term of the guarantee is approaching, the device can begin to show bizarre failures, creating confusion and making very difficult detecting the cause or the defective component.

    The proof of this phenomenon is offered by my first Dune HD Base 2.0 player dune that I bought from the Dune company in Bucharest, somewhere in 2005, and it worked so far with a single repair at the switching power supply (dry capacitors), but has aged the lens of the IR sensor. And the sensor no longer sees the IR rase of the remote control from a distance more than 1 meter, but it still works. The device has been operating for 17 years with the top lid removed and until I bought the OPPO 203, it worked about 8 hours a day, therefore, estimating about 70 thousand hours of use.

    With the exception of OPPO 203, Zappiti Signature 2022 and Zappi Cinema Audiocom 2020, the majority of all other players from all the manufacturing companies are heating up after 2-3 hours of continuous use.

    Regarding the fact that most customers would not exceed the use of over 3 hours, well there is something which the producers are missing. There are those who, for example, are nightly using the YouTube, where again, and it seems that it is a growing trend, are uploded files that run 10 hours, such as relaxation music, sounds from nature, birds, etc .... and if they are left at a small volume they represent an adjuvant in creating a better sleep, induce relaxation and meditation ... or for example music that have incorporated/encoded various low frequencies specific to sleep (alpha, beta, theta, etc.) with a duration of 10 hours and the people started to use them, because they thinks are good for the health ...

    It doesn’t matter you are playing at low or high volume because the player heating is exactly the same. What is surprising me is that Neo S and all others, do have an infinite loop playing setting, so theoretically it may play without stopping. This setting is mostly currently used by the shops with exhibitions and the customers, visitors, are always seeing the device playing at any hour of the day. And if it broke down, it doesn’t matter because the owner will replace it with another one.

    WHAT IS THE SOLUTION TO THE HEATING PROBLEM ?

    I made a customised identical metallic top lid with 4 cuts (as seen in the photo)

    The lid has 4 cuts, for ventilation, provided with dusty filters bought from Germany, with 1 micrometer mesh.
    In this way, the hot air currents are rising and the dust is being lighter, it stay on the filters but every 2-3 days I give a cleaning with the mighty Dyson vacuum cleaner and snatch the dust above and possibly caught in the mesh.

    The 4 openings ensure ventilation as follows (see the photo):

    - switching power supply (and one minicooler added there)
    - analog power supply (and one minicooler added there)
    - the central processor (and one minicooler added there)
    - the transistor who warms up (see the other photo)

    I was absolutely amazed to see how this little use artifice made from Neo S a device that can work without interruption tens or hundreds of hours ...
     

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    Last edited: Jun 15, 2023

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