Recommended Settings and other useful stuff for RTD 1619DR Players (HT PDF Updated)

Ok.. so I am getting a little confused. Are you saying that, with the N7Z, I should perhaps not use a custom EDID and LLDV and let my projector do all of the tone mapping? In which case, I'm assuming that all of my DV titles would simply pass an HDR10 signal.

I'm assuming that this would also entail a number of other changes to my settings on the Z9X. Right now, I have EVERYTHING passing through as LLDV with the 400nit EDID to an X570R because, if I remember correctly, the projector has rudimentary tone mapping and terrible sync times.

Without adding any new equipment (ie VERTEX), can you please advise me on how to get the most out of my new projector with the Z9X? Almost all of my viewing is 4K UHD and 1080P bluray.

Thank you so much for all of your help!

 

No, sorry, didn't mean to imply that at all - I'd definitely try LLDV, especially if you're used to using it on the old PJ.

I use LLDV for all content on my NZ800 and it looks great - difference is that I use a Vertex to send matching MaxCLL/FALL/MDL to it which the PJ also takes into account. Must admit I don't know how much, if any, difference that makes though.

Also, if you did decide to use HDR natively, including sending native Dolby Vision, the Vertex makes life a whole lot easier by automating everything - so in my case I have the PJ's HDR set to Auto and the Vertex spits out an HDR message when it receives LLDV - that way, although it's always in LLDV for the Zidoo, when I use the Shield or Sky box (Satellite TV) which both send SDR, the PJ automatically switches to SDR. Without the Vertex you have to switch manually.

But I suggest trying LLDV in the same way you do now with the 570 before you consider splashing out, although I'd never hesitate to recommend a vertex for any projector setup as it's great for diagnostics and general fiddling about.

It's difficult to give you definitive settings, because everyone's taste is different, but make sure all motion settings are switched off in the PJ and make sure you have frame by frame DTM switched on - you'll have some fun dialling it all in.

 

So, I am upgrading my projector to the N7Z, which I believe is just one or two steps below your projector. My understanding is that it has very good tone mapping for HDR but does not do DV. I believe that it will automatically switch between SDR (my SHIELD and cable box) and HDR depending on what signal it receives (all inputs are routed through a DENON 6700 - again a few steps below your gear).

Is there a way to have everything from the Zidoo passed along natively ( so that the JVC does it's thing) except DV which I would like handled by the ZIDOO (and passed along as LLDV, which my projector would read as HDR?...HDR10?) without the addition of a VERTEX?

If this is not possible, and I have to continue passing everything along as LLDV (for ease of operation for the rest of the family), then I am a little concerned that I may have made the upgrade for naught. My current X570R puts out a stunning picture with this setup... I was just hoping for a little more with newer tech from JVC and it's purported improvement in tone mapping. Am I correct in assuming that passing all content in LLDV bypasses the JVCs tone mapping?

 

No, you need a Vertex (or similar) to do that - the problem with LLDV is that it doesn't send an HDR SEI message so the projector will recognise it as SDR and won't switch into its HDR mode - the Vertex recognises DV and can be set to send an HDR message when that happens which switches the PJ into HDR:

No not at all, but it depends how you present LLDV - I use a 1000 nit Dolby Block which means that the Dolby processor only tone maps above 1000nits and the PJ does its thing from around 100 to 1000nits.

You can also use a 400nit one which means more work for the Dolby algo (>400nits) and less work for the PJ (<400nits) so it's a balancing act - I find that the 1000nit one works better so the majority of the work is done by DTM in the PJ.

You could also use a 10,000nit Dolby block which would mean 100% of the tone mapping is done by the PJ.

This is what I mean by there's not one single way to do it - but the more you learn, the more informed your choices and hopefully the better the picture.

 

I remember very little of how I set my present projector up, other than how helpful, knowledgeable and patient you were....

Thanks again! If I remember correctly LDDV required me to load a custom gamma through autocal and "force" my projector into HDR mode...The latter part was something I never had to do as it simply stayed on HDR through power cycles... I can however see that the HDR setting has a GAMMA labled CUSTOM 3.

For your present projector, are you using a custom GAMMA and are you able to "force HDR"? I understand that you don't have to do the latter because of the VERTEX, I'm just wondering if the new JVCs can do the trick.

I will be spending my next day off (Wednesday) setting the new projector up. I'm sure things will be more clear to me when I'm actually fiddeling with things in person. If I understand things ( BIG if), I can setup VS10 to output everything to LLDV like I have now (not sure if I need a custom gamma). If I use the 10000 NIT EDID in the ZIDOO then then the JVC will do all of the tone mapping. If this is correct, then I'm assuming that all benefits of DOLBYVISION are lost but that I will still be able to play the file without funky colours...

 

No worries

So no, with the new PJ you definitely won't need a custom gamma - they only reason we used them in the old days was that the early JVC projectors had terrible HDR performance so a custom gamma fixed that.

These days they've definitely nailed it and more so with the advent of Frame Adapt HDR.

So yes, you will be able to set HDR mode manually and no, you don't use a custom gamma.

No you don't lose all the benefits of Dolby Vision but the nits level in the Dolby Block defines the handoff level for tone mapping.

And yes, it will all become a lot clearer when you get the new PJ

 

If you keep responding then I'm going to keep asking questions LOL...

I thought that what sets DV apart from vanilla HDR is the inclusion of metadata (?) that dynamically applies tone mapping from frame to frame as opposed to "static" info applied evenly for the entire movie. Where does this info go in the LDDV process of converting it to the HDR that the projector can process?

 

LLDV is basically Dolby processing done before the signal hits the display - so the output of the player is "pre-processed" and the output is dealt with by the display in the same way that a static HDR10 signal is processed - the display doesn't need to do anything clever. All the frame by frame, or more usually, scene by scene stuff, is already done to the signal before the display gets it.

 

OK, so then the whole point of mastering in DV would be for the player (either ZIDOO or TV) to take the frame by frame data imbedded in the file and process it. If you place a high enough NIT number on the custom EDID then the JVC will use it's own proprietary sauce on the image no? Kind of like how I apply DTS Neural X processing on DD+ soundtracks with my amp?

The results are pleasing but not necessarily what the person mastering the file intended.

 

Yes, but also no

If the display can support the luminance required, then tone mapping isn't necessary and this is kind of what we're doing here, but instead of having a display that can natively display the required nits, we're using another method - ie, JVC's secret sauce (instead of Dolby's).

 

Holy crap! For a couple of minutes everything snapped into place and I had complete understanding.... But then my brain asked... What happens to the "extra" info imbedded in the DV file when it is converted into a simple HDR container.. Is it thrown out and JVC does it's own thing by using AI based on future frames?

 

What extra info?

LLDV is just that info processed in the player and spitting out an already processed video stream rather than doing it in the TV.

It's not converted into an HDR container, but the way it's "decoded" is the same as long as the parameters match.

 

as far as I know the 8k model does not support playing 3D ISO files, if that is important for you.

 

Yes, but it's not important as I use my Z9X Pro to playback 3D content (which is almost none left!!)

 

@Mark, in the absence of using a custom EDID, Do you know what nit level your projector presents itself as? Is there a place where this type of info is displayed in a data sheet?
I'd love to know this info about my NZ7, but lack the equipment (HD FURY) to capture it...

 

You need a light meter to measure that at the screen using multiple points on a 100% white pattern - I actually haven't measured it, and of course it depends on screen size, screen gain and throw distance and of course laser setting, but a ballpark figure is probably 90-110 nits.

I seem to remember measuring my old X7000 and it was about 85nits or so at full chat.

I know that sounds low, but it's cinema and not television - your average movie theatre sits at about 50nits with Dolby Cinema reaching as high as 100nits.

 

Hi looking for some advice

I have a UHD3000 with two 14tb discs for a few years now and I’m starting to run out of space!

I’m looking for advice on an external drive that I can plug in to give me more space as I can’t really spend the money on a NAS setup at the moment!

I shut the Zidoo down each time I use it which is probably once or twice a week. Should I be doing this or leaving constantly on with disks in sleep mode? Would the external usb shut down or sleep when connected to the Zidoo if it was still powered on and what would it do if I shut the Zidoo down?

looking for advice and best practice on this setup

 

Hi everyone, can someone sum up please what are the best picture settings for Z9X at the moment?
Curious about the most accurate settings for LG C1, thanks in advance!

 

I've spent the last couple of weeks playing with various settings with my new JVC NZ7 run from my Z9X through my Denon 6700 and have come to the conclusion that there isn't really a one size fits all solution that gives you the best of all worlds set it and forget it like I had with LLDV and 1000nit EDID in my previous JVC with a custom gamma.

Right now I'm running this setup in AUTO HDR mode without a custom EDID from the ZIDOO. On the JVC there is an option to not report HDR10+ in its EDID and I'm using that as these files look the worst. The JVC implementation with HDR10+ seems to lock the user out of a number of key parameters available on vanilla HDR tone mapping...
Anyways, with this setup I get a pretty good baseline for all file types without any funky colours in the posterwall.
With LLDV and the 10000 nit EDID, I think i achieved a marginally better pick in most files.. but when anomalies showed up... they were really bad... my full bit rate rip of INGLORIOUS BASTERDS was unwatchable with strange frame by frame pulsing waxiness and colours... there were other examples but that's the one that comes to mind as my brain has been fried doing so many A/B tests...lol

 

Hi again,



I’ll try to better specify the picture settings I’m using and some concerns I’ve noticed because, honestly, all of these settings are driving me crazy lately. I’m using a Z9X with the latest firmware version 6.4.68 and an LG C1 OLED. Here are the current settings I’m working with:



Display Settings:

• HDR: Auto

• Color Settings/4K 50~60Hz: Priority YUV420 10BIT

• Color Settings/4K 23~30Hz: Priority YUV444 10BIT

• Color Settings/Non-4K: Priority YUV444 10BIT

• HDMI Range: 16-235

• Resolution: Auto

• MaxCLL and MaxFALL: ON

• Deep Colour Compatibility Mode: Open

• DV Compatibility Mode: LLVD Player Led

• Picture Parameters: All on 32

• HDCP: OFF



My Questions:

1. HDMI Range (16-235 vs 0-255):

• For me, 0-255 seems to have better contrast, but it’s too dark. When I switch to “Auto,” it selects 0-255, yet when I set the TV to limited range, the picture becomes darker and more contrasty. On the other hand, selecting limited range on the Zidoo makes the picture brighter.

• This behavior confuses me because it feels like the TV and Zidoo interpret limited range differently. What’s the ideal range setting for both the TV and player?

2. Deep Colour Compatibility Mode (Open):

• Are there any downsides to using the “Open” setting instead of “Off”?

• Should I match this setting with my TV’s deep color settings? For example, if I disable deep color on the TV, should I also turn it off on the Zidoo (and vice versa)?

3. Picture Parameters (All on 32):

• Is it okay to leave all the picture parameters at 32, or should I adjust these for better quality?

4. HDCP (OFF):

• Is it fine to keep HDCP set to “OFF” since all my TV’s picture modes are set to gamma 2.2? Or should I switch the Zidoo to HDCP 2.2 instead?

5. DV Compatibility Mode (LLVD Player Led):

• This one is tricky. When I select “TV Led,” Dolby Vision movies always display in 8-bit RGB, regardless of my other settings (according to the output info). However, when I use “Player Led,” Dolby Vision movies consistently display in 12-bit.

• HDR movies seem to have better consistency—they always display in 10-bit, with the only difference being the YUV format (sometimes 444, other times 420, depending on the LED setting).

• What’s the ideal setting for DV Compatibility Mode, and why does TV Led force 8-bit RGB for Dolby Vision movies?



I would be very grateful if anyone could help me understand what I might be doing wrong and what adjustments I should make to improve picture quality. Thanks in advance!