Playing DV from MKV

Dear all,

I created a MKV-file from a DV UDH-BD but I cannot manage to play it back in DV but just in HDR10.

the specs of the MKV according to MediaInfo are:

Dolby Vision, Version 1.0, dvhe.07.06, BL+EL+RPU, Blu-ray compatible / SMPTE ST 2086, HDR10 compatible

I am using an EPSON 5040UB with Mark's custom EDID file.

Is it possible to play back this file in DV? I have the HDR settings set to "VS10 for DV content".

Sorry if this is a stupid question. I've been in Home Theater for quite a while now but this whole DV topic is more complex than most things I had to handle over the last 25 years.

Thanks in advance for your help!

Best regards,
Markus

 

The EPSON 5040UB doesn't support DV as far as I can see.

 

Well, that's the reason for many people with HDR-capable projectors to use a Zidoo player as it converts DV to HDR10 using VS10 processing

My question was why MKVs with this MediaInfo information

Dolby Vision, Version 1.0, dvhe.07.06, BL+EL+RPU, Blu-ray compatible / SMPTE ST 2086, HDR10 compatible

won't playback in DV and the Zidoo just shows me a HDR10 in the upper lefthand corner upon start.

MKVs with those MediaInfo information work flawlessly (when the movie starts I can see Dolby Vision VS10 in the upper lefthand corner):

Dolby Vision, Version 1.0, dvhe.05.06, BL+RPU
Dolby Vision, Version 1.0, dvhe.08.06, BL+RPU, HDR10 compatible / SMPTE ST 2086, HDR10 compatible

I did a little research (this whole DV thing is pretty complexI have to admit) and I think the reason is FEL/MEL. Is it correct that the MKV that is not working is FEL and the working ones are MEL?

(on the other hand I checked one of the not-working files with MakeMKV and it tells me MEL but I still only get HDR10 - confused)

Any help will be highly appreciated.

Cheers,
Markus

 

It has nothing to do with FEL or MEL - either will play just fine in the Zidoo. In the case of FEL, the video element of the enhancement layer is not used but the RPU data is fully utilised so you get all the benefit of dynamic tone mapping and trims etc, the only difference is the video is 10-bit rather than 12-bit which is no biggie.

On the face of it, all those videos should play in Dolby Vision and I've never come across a correctly formatted file that reports Dolby Vision in MediaInfo that doesn't play as such.

The only Dolby Vision MKV files that won't work in the Zidoo are those that were produced before the standard for DV in MKV was finalised in the early days - those files are DTDL (Dual Track, Dual Layer) whereas correctly formatted files are STDL (Single Track Dual Layer) but I don't expect that's what you've done since you ripped it yourself.

Can you provide the full MediaInfo report for it?

 

Ah - hang on - I just reread your post.

I assumed you were using the LLDV hack to play Dolby Vision natively since you mentioned my EDID - I assumed you meant an LLDV EDID.

Now I reread it I think you're just using VS10 to convert Dolby Vision to HDR10.

In that case everything is working as it should .. almost.

Profile 7 (as ripped from BluRays) should play in native HDR10 since it has an HDR10 compatibility layer so there's no need for the VS10 engine to intervene.

Profile 5 does not have a compatibility layer so VS10 is needed to convert to HDR10.

Profile 8 also has a compatibility layer so expected behaviour is that it plays in native HDR10, but this is not the case - it needlessly uses the VS10 engine.

 

Sure, Mark, here we go, a few samples of DV movies that just give me a HDR10 icon in the upper lefthand corner (please note that I started converting my discs already before I had my Zidoo, so the specs below show different MakeMKV versions). HDR setting in the Zidoo is "Using VS10 for Dolby Vision" and I am using the custom EDID you provided a while ago for the EPSON 5040UB.

Movie 1

General
Unique ID : 295208698641795461297291434839377978105 (0xDE172093D5BE84C75243B8E6B87022F9)
Format : Matroska
Format version : Version 2
File size : 73.7 GiB
Duration : 3 h 2 min
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 57.8 Mb/s
Encoded date : UTC 2020-12-07 10:13:30
Writing application : MakeMKV v1.15.3 win(x64-release)
Writing library : libmakemkv v1.15.3 (1.3.10/1.5.2) win(x64-release)

Video
ID : 1
ID in the original source medium : 4113 (0x1011)
Format : HEVC
Format/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile : Main 10@L5.1@High
HDR format : Dolby Vision, Version 1.0, dvhe.07.06, BL+EL+RPU, Blu-ray compatible / SMPTE ST 2086, HDR10 compatible
Codec ID : V_MPEGH/ISO/HEVC
Duration : 3 h 2 min
Bit rate : 49.5 Mb/s
Width : 3 840 pixels
Height : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0 (Type 2)
Bit depth : 10 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.249
Stream size : 63.1 GiB (86%)
Language : English
Default : No
Forced : No
Color range : Limited
Color primaries : BT.2020
Transfer characteristics : PQ
Matrix coefficients : BT.2020 non-constant
Mastering display color primaries : Display P3
Mastering display luminance : min: 0.0050 cd/m2, max: 4000 cd/m2
Maximum Content Light Level : 801 cd/m2
Maximum Frame-Average Light Level : 188 cd/m2
Original source medium : Blu-ray


Movie 2

General
Unique ID : 153049423966827269504204000624566114240 (0x73243F3224F8372F2C65911D7F3897C0)
Format : Matroska
Format version : Version 2
File size : 50.0 GiB
Duration : 2 h 3 min
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 57.7 Mb/s
Movie name : Ghostbusters: Afterlife
Encoded date : UTC 2022-07-03 14:52:18
Writing application : MakeMKV v1.17.0 win(x64-release)
Writing library : libmakemkv v1.17.0 (1.3.10/1.5.2) win(x64-release)

Video
ID : 1
ID in the original source medium : 4113 (0x1011)
Format : HEVC
Format/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile : Main 10@L5.1@High
HDR format : Dolby Vision, Version 1.0, dvhe.07.06, BL+EL+RPU, Blu-ray compatible / SMPTE ST 2086, HDR10 compatible
Codec ID : V_MPEGH/ISO/HEVC
Duration : 2 h 3 min
Bit rate : 49.3 Mb/s
Width : 3 840 pixels
Height : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0 (Type 2)
Bit depth : 10 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.248
Stream size : 42.7 GiB (85%)
Language : English
Default : No
Forced : No
Color range : Limited
Color primaries : BT.2020
Transfer characteristics : PQ
Matrix coefficients : BT.2020 non-constant
Mastering display color primaries : Display P3
Mastering display luminance : min: 0.0050 cd/m2, max: 4000 cd/m2
Maximum Content Light Level : 1059 cd/m2
Maximum Frame-Average Light Level : 385 cd/m2
Original source medium : Blu-ray

Movie 3

General
Unique ID : 3609560078286342277370170009509867367 (0x2B72D0D4AFBD9E3E4EBD6D3AA4AAF67)
Format : Matroska
Format version : Version 2
File size : 72.7 GiB
Duration : 2 h 43 min
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 63.6 Mb/s
Movie name : No Time to Die
Encoded date : UTC 2021-12-21 08:51:03
Writing application : MakeMKV v1.16.5 win(x64-release)
Writing library : libmakemkv v1.16.5 (1.3.10/1.5.2) win(x64-release)

Video
ID : 1
ID in the original source medium : 4113 (0x1011)
Format : HEVC
Format/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile : Main 10@L5.1@High
HDR format : Dolby Vision, Version 1.0, dvhe.07.06, BL+EL+RPU, Blu-ray compatible / SMPTE ST 2086, HDR10 compatible
Codec ID : V_MPEGH/ISO/HEVC
Duration : 2 h 43 min
Bit rate : 56.6 Mb/s
Width : 3 840 pixels
Height : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0 (Type 2)
Bit depth : 10 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.285
Stream size : 64.7 GiB (89%)
Language : English
Default : No
Forced : No
Color range : Limited
Color primaries : BT.2020
Transfer characteristics : PQ
Matrix coefficients : BT.2020 non-constant
Mastering display color primaries : Display P3
Mastering display luminance : min: 0.0001 cd/m2, max: 1000 cd/m2
Maximum Content Light Level : 1000 cd/m2
Maximum Frame-Average Light Level : 901 cd/m2
Original source medium : Blu-ray

Thank you so much for taking a look at this, it's highly appreciated!

Cheers,
Markus

 

Ooops, just prepared the reply above while you were writing as well

So is there a way for Profile 7 files to use the DV metadata instead of just using the HDR10 compatibility layer?

Cheers,
Markus

 

Since as far as an HDR10 display is concerned, a Profile 7 file is HDR10, if you set HDR to "Dolby Vision VS10 Engine (for HDR, DV content) that will use the VS10 engine. However it will also VS10 for HDR10 content too.

You'll have to judge which gives the better picture - I suspect just using HDR10 natively as you have been doing.

 

Thanks a lot for the clarification - and the lightning fast responses!

One final question: Is there a way to convert my files in a way that the compatibility layer will be lost and therefore the player will be forced to use the DV information? Would that make any sense at all quality vise?

Best regards,
Markus

 

There's no way to lose the compatibility layer since that is the actual video information

You can convert to Profile 7 to Profile 8 which will ditch the enhancement layer, although there's a bit of a learning curve to follow..

The easiest and best way is to use this:

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=183479

However, I believe that the behaviour of the Zidoo in using VS10 for Profile 8 files is incorrect (at least it doesn't follow the logical behaviour that Profile 7 does in using native HDR10) so there's a possibility of that being fixed at some point.

Quality wise, to be honest, I think you're probably better using native HDR10, but as I say, try it and see what you think.

 

Ok, final, final question - and I REALLY appreciate your patience with me.

Please take a look at the following file info:

Video
ID : 1
Format : HEVC
Format/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile : Main 10@L5@High
HDR format : Dolby Vision, Version 1.0, dvhe.05.06, BL+RPU
Codec ID : V_MPEGH/ISO/HEVC
Duration : 2 h 2 min
Bit rate : 14.1 Mb/s
Width : 3 840 pixels
Height : 1 606 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 2.40:1
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 10 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.096
Stream size : 12.1 GiB (95%)
Language : English
Default : Yes
Forced : No

That's a file that's working great, I get the Dolby Vision VS10 logo and it looks awesome on the screen. Would it make any sense to convert my ripped BD files into such a file so that I willl eventually have DV benefits on my non-DV projector?

Cheers,
Markus

 

That's DV Profile 5 - "dvhe.05.06" which means "Dolby Vision HEVC Profile 5 Level 6". The Level 6 refers to resolution.

There's no way (without Dolby software) to go from Profile 7 to Profile 5 that I'm aware of because it's not only a different colour space, it's also a different way of encoding colour space.

 

Ahh, I see! Mate, thanks again for all this input, I really learned so much today fom you already!

So what you wrote in this thread should also work for me I guess:

http://forum.zidoo.tv/index.php?thr...-an-epson-projector-please.93649/#post-173208

I'll give it a try tonight!

I also saw somewhere on the forum that you have a custom EDID for the Epson 6040UB. Would you mind sharing this? I used the one for the 5040 but I actually have the 6040.

Cheers,
Markus

 

EDID file attached.

 

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the EDID file which did the magic trick!

I realized that the 5040UB EDID file did not make the player believe that my projector is DV capable. With the 6040UB EDID this works like a charm and DV files are now properly played back (I have to switch to HDR more manually which is fine).

So thanks again for your patience and your help, it really helped!

Best regards,
Markus

 

Brilliant!

Good to know that the Epsons can be manually switched into HDR..

 

Hi Mark! Thanks again for providing me with the Epson 6040 EDID file above. It works like a charm with my projector. However, maybe I could ask for your help again.

I realized this weekend that when I use this EDID file my AV receiver will properly receive Dolby lossless audio streams but when trying to play a DTS HD streams only the DTS core will be sent to the receiver.

I already went through the EDID thread and fooled around with the Deltacast EDID editor but I wasn't able to find where I can activate DTS HD output to the receiver.

Any hint you could give me?

Thanks,
Markus

 

Try this one...

 

Works perfectly, thanks a lot, Mark!

Best regards,
Markus

 

How to find if a mkv file dvhe.07.06, BL+EL+RPU is MEL or FEL? Mediainfo doesn't provide the info.