EDID thread (RTD1619DR players)

I know, I tested it for many months and there was always something about the image that I didn't like!
So I switched to "manual tone mapping" and since then every video has allowed me to watch them in the best possible quality!

 

I'm surprised, but I always advocate trusting your eyes and ears in the final analysis!

 

OK so I'm not crazy that there is definitely an interplay between black level and what nit level EDID we are using for LLDV..

I've only watched 2 movies since I went to the 10,000 nit EDID and I've liked what I saw.. The question is whether or not there was any point of playing the DV layer of the movie with a 10,000 nit EDID than simply using the native EDID and playing the HDR10 layer that it would have defaulted to?

For me, the update price would not have been worth it without the frame by frame tone mapping on these projectors.... and I get what your saying about the pumping, but I absolutely love DYNAMIC CONTROL (mode 3)... I will give 3,000 nits a try. Did you simply take the one from the multipack that Mark has uploaded?

Or is there a specific one for the NZ7 that Magic Mark has provided?

 

I'm assuming that I can simply use the various EDIDs from this post?

https://forum.zidoo.tv/index.php?th...r-aml-s928x-players.98556/page-26#post-260601

 

Yes - they're just full audio 600MHz EDIDs with different nit Dolby Blocks.

 

Yes, that's perfect, those are the ones I use and I've tried them all one by one, and each time, the 3000 suits me best... knowing that I adjust the white balance with my usual test charts and that I tweak the tone mapping, since I'm shooting in manual mode!
Have fun.

 

Mark...Can you comment and try to educate me on what benefit, if any, I am getting by still watching the Dolby Vision layer if I'm employing a 10,000 nit curve?

As I understand it, a UHD has a base 4K encode of a movie. The HDR layer has extra info conferring an increased colour gammet. In HDR10 this is static with HDR10+ and DV providing various dynamic scene by scene variations of this extra info. The nit level of the EDID will determine the "hand off" point at which the ZIDOO employs Dolby's solution to tone mapping and where the JVC's solution takes over.. When I employ a 10,000 nit EDID, then I am telling the ZIDOO that it is connected to a device that essentially doesn't need tone mapping and it can just send all of the video info it has...The JVC then handles everything...Why then use DV at all?

I'm going to experiment with the different EDIDs but at 10k, am I not just getting the same result as playing the vanilla HDR10 file without all the rigamaroll of LLDV and custom EDIDs?

 

Answered here:

https://forum.zidoo.tv/index.php?threads/edid-thread-rtd1619dr-players.86856/page-59#post-270519

It depends on the trim targets in the RPU - yes, there is no tone mapping needed since the EDID says the display is bright enough, but trims can come into play depending at what nit level they're targeted at, so the RPU can change stuff even at 10,000 nits - it depends on how it was mastered. Dolby Vision isn't just tone mapping.

Unfortunately though, because Dolby Vision is such an arse, things light Chroma Weight and Saturation Gain have no effect with LLDV which is a bug that's been around since the beginning (Stacey Spears found it first) and Dolby just don't seem to be bothered to fix it.

 

Hello,

Is it possible to have an EDID SDR BT.2020 for the Z10 Pro and a wx5000es?

 

For me, a beautiful "cinematic black" is one that doesn't create a solid black mass without any distinctions.
For example, on a black jacket, I don't want an all-black shape, but rather to see a black jacket with just a hint of the lapels showing through.

 

SDR BT.2020 cannot, nor does it need to be, defined in the EDID.

 

You want my Zidoo Z10 Pro to output all your movies (HDR or SDR) in SDR, because my Sony VPL-XW5000ES lacks brightness in HDR.
The goal is therefore to convert HDR to SDR using the Dolby Vision VS10 engine, while maintaining a bright, natural, and balanced image.

Here are my settings:
Resolution 3840×2160p 23Hz.
Color Settings YCbCr 4:4:4 12-bit .
Color Range 16–235.
HDR mode → :
✅ Dolby Vision VS10 Engine for all content)

When I use an EDID Rec709, all the whites are blown out and the blacks are crushed.

Why?

 

Absolutely...but a full fade to black should actually be a FULL AND UTTER FULL FADE TO BLACK...LOL....IMHO

 

Ok...so in my environment, I seem to like what I'm seeing with the 4000 nit EDID and LLDV on my test material... Now I'll live with it for some time and use it as my daily driver to enjoy my movies under regular conditions...

Thanks Mark for the EDID pack!

 

You're welcome.

So I did some testing with a 10,000nit EDID and although there was no difference at the lower end, tone mapping at the high end did seem to be affected.

This is using Frame by Frame tone mapping with the JVC manually set to HDR10 without any HDR messages from the Vertex - so the JVC didn't have any MaxCLL/FALL information.

Using Spears & Munsil DV Tone Mapping patterns, with both a 1000nit and 4000nit EDID, you could see tone mapping being effective up to 10000nits - so theoretically the Zidoo was tone mapping from 1000-10000 nits and 4000-10000 nits respectively and the JVC up to 1000 and 4000 respectively. Obviously it's not as clear cut as that, and there will have been crossover, but obviously the Zidoo has the first bite of the apple!

I then tried a 10000nit EDID which means the Zidoo should have been passing the signal as is with no tone mapping and the JVC was doing all the donkey work.

In this case, tone mapping seemed to stop at about 5000nits - certainly the gradations became lost in the background after this point whereas in the other two they were visible right into the 10000 nits signal (the way this pattern works is to have bars with increasing luminosity from left to right with a moving gradation in the middle with a level just below the bar at that point - so if you can see the gradation, the image is either within the constraints of the display or it's being tone mapped:



There are a million other variables at play here, not least all the picture settings in the JVC, so I'm sure this could be tweaked, but on a like for like basis it seems that the JVC tone mapping struggles above 5000 nits so an EDID of 4000 nits would seem sensible and let the DV algo deal with anything above that (not that there'll be much in modern content).

However, there was no subjective difference between 1000 and 4000 nits and I'd expect this to be borne out with content as well since the majority of content is under 1000 nits and most of that is well under!

I'll do the same as you though and stick at 4000 nits and see how it goes...

 

@Markswift2003

Thanks so much for your time and patience in answering my questions.

Once again you bring the science to my, at times chaotic, empirical testing!

For me, on my setup, the one replicatable difference between the 1k and 4k EDIDs is the opening monologue of the movie WEAPONS. .. in my completely blacked out theater (with MODE 3 laser dimming) i cannot see my hand in front of my face even with the length of the scene, my eyes can't adjust to see anything. With the 1K EDID, after a few seconds, my eyes are able to adjust to make out the faint glow of my scope screen in the darkness...
Most movies do not have such an extreme scene in blackness and length and I've not done enough testing to see what this means overall in normally lit scenes..

 

Can you send me both those EDIDs - I wonder if the min nits level is above zero in the 1000nit one?

 

I don't use any HDFURY box so I'm not capable of capturing anything. .

Other than that, all EDIDs I'm using are from the pack that you have provided with the exception of the 1K file which I believe I took from a post in this thread from about a year ago. I believe it was an EDID that you were personally using at the time. .

 

I don't mean capture one, send the files you're using - I'm sure I wrote them but I can also make mistakes so just wanted to check that the value of TMIN_PQ is not above zero.

These projectors will only do FFTB if the video level is zero, anything above that and the laser is on. FFTB requires the laser to modulate low but then turn off completely. There's no reason I can think of why a 1000nit EDID behaves any different to a 10000nit EDID at the bottom end - a video level of zero is a video level of zero and that's defined by TMIN_PQ, not TMAX_PQ.

I've seen TVs with poorly done EDID Dolby Blocks where TMIN_PQ is say 0.001nits or even 0.050nits on one occasion and for some reason, even though that's the actual performance level of the panel, setting anything other than 0.000 raises the black floor of a DV signal. So I'm just wondering if one of those EDIDs is like that. Can't think why, but worth checking.

I'll try that Weapons sequence later on 1000 and 10000 to see if I can replicate..

 

I'm interrupting your conversation, and if you could check my two edits to see if they're correct:
- one for the JVC : https://mega.nz/file/pX4QRSCJ#93cbUv6Qh4ViewCohbpcffZ4wgolizGrUbCuzwxzGzI
- one for the Samsung in HDR10+ : I can't find the link anymore?
Personally, I stick with 3000, because above that the image is too harsh and below that it's washed out.
Thanks in advance.