DTS, DTS-HD, DTS-X Lipsync (solved)

This thread is ONLY for the above issue - posts regarding anything else will be deleted.

We need some info on your HDMI chain as this seems to only affect certain configurations.

Information from those who do not have any sync issues are just as important as those who do, so if you do not have a problem, please also post your chain.

Can you post your full HDMI chain (model numbers if possible)

example:

Z9X 8K > Denon X700H > LG G4

And also state whether you have sync issues or not, and if so, which DTS codecs are out of sync in your experience - DTS, DTS-HD, DTS-X.

 

Results so far:

NO LIPSYNC ISSUES

@Markswift2003
Z9X 8K > Vertex2 > Denon X7200W > Samsung TV
UHD8000 > Vertex2 > Denon X8500H > JVC D-ILA NZ800

@cucnz
Z30 Pro > Denon X3700H > Panasonic LZ1500

@Chirita Laurentiu
Z3000 Pro > Denon X4800H > LG G3

@daniko
Zidoo > TV Sony XH9505 > Samsung Q930C (eARC)

@Visconti12
Z9X 8K > Denon X6700H > LG C34

@enry184
UHD8000 > Denon AVC-A1HD > LG C3

@Troy LaMont
UHD8000 > LG CX (for picture)
UHD8000 > Onkyo TX-NR807 (for audio)

@Amatthy
Z9X 8K > Denon X4800H > LG G3

@Cabu8803
UHD8000 > Yamaha Aventage RX-A8A > HDFury Vrroom > Sony OLED XR-77 A80k & Epson cinema Pro 6040

@furzgesicht
Z9X 8k > Pioneer VSX835 > LG OLED 83C1

@emigrant
Zidoo Z30 Pro > LG G4(eARC) > Deembedder -> Onkyo 606

@farlucco
Z9X 8K > LG G4 > Samsung Q930D eArc

@Muyfa666
Z9X 8K > Samsung Q995D > LG CS6

@Oldpainless
Z9X 8K > Onkyo TX-RZ800 (auto lip-sync off) > Sony Bravia OLED A85

@NOP1050
Z9X 8K - Yamaha RX-A8A - JVC X9900

@Visconti12 (System #2)
Z9X 8K > Vertex2 > Denon AVR-X6200W > Samsung QE75QF7 > BenQ W5700


LIPSYNC ISSUES

@blenky
Z9X 8K > Denon X3800H > LG C4
DTS-HD MA, DTS-X

@Lee Wallace
Z9X 8K > Denon X3800H > Sony A95L
DTS, DTS-HD MA, DTS-X

@hashan
Z9X 8K > TV Samsung S95B > Samsung Q930B (eARC)
TBC

@Creator44
Z9X 8K > Yamaha A8A > Sony X95K
DTS, DTS-HD MA, DTS-X

@lami
Z9X 8K > Yamaha RXA3070> Panasonic JZ1500B
DTS, DTS HD-MA, DTS-X

@AirRailey
Z9X 8K > Marantz Cinema 40 > LG 77C29
DTS-HD MA

@Me_diaPlayer
Z9X 8K > Denon AVC-X6700H (Auto Lipsync on) > LG OLED B8
DTS, DTS-HD MA, DTS-X



LIPSYNC ISSUES FIXED IN V1.1.70

@mgittelman
Z9X 8k -> Anthem MRX 520 -> LG C8
DTS-HD MA

@Derek Watson
Z9X 8K > Trinnov Alt16 > JVC D-ILA NZ8
DTS, DTS-HD MA, DTS-X

@JanGraz
Z3000 Pro (Main) > Panasonic TV
Z3000 Pro (Audio) > Marantz Cinema 50
DTS-HD MA

 

Okay Mark. As I wrote my chain is this:

HDMI Main (video only) > Panasonic JZ2000 TV.

HDMI (audio only) > Marantz Cinema 50.

I use 48Gbps HDMI 2.1 cables and both the TV and AVR use the HDMI 2.1 protocol.

I'm having lip sync problems with DTS HD MA.

 

No. I have lipsync issues with DTS-HD and DTS-X. DTS is fine.

 

Sorry - misread...

 

My hardware chain is:

Z9X 8K > Denon 3800h > Sony A95L

Only DTS formats affected.

 

Which ones?

 

DTS - DTS HD MA - DTS X

 

Here you go Mark - thanks for taking this up.

Z9X 8K > Trinnov Alt16 > JVC D-ILA NZ8

DTS, DTS HD-MA, DTS-X - Lip Sync issues

 

Zidoo Z3000 Pro > Denon X4800H > LG G3

No Lipsync Issues

 

Z9X 8K > Samsung S95b > Samsung Q930B (Q-Symphony/eARC)

Has lip sync issues.

I'll update this post with formats once I notice them again.

 

My configuration is zidoo-tv Sony xh9505-q930c and i dont have any issues with siyncronisation

 

Its not showing what i was hoping for ,even this early , LOL

ie some zidoo > reciever have synch issues /some with similar recievers ,dont
some going zidoo> TV get and some dont

Maybe next we need to look at all the audio / vid settings in zidoo ill get all mine and post since i dont get synch issues or stutter
shame theres no way to print it out as text file from zidoo
ill start a new thread so this doesnt get "tainted"

 

Z9X 8K -> Yamaha A8A -> Sony X95K

I did a lot of tests tonight and to be fair it's hard to say if I have a sync issue or not anymore but it seems slightly off compared to Z9X Pro which is more clearly ok. It's definitely more subtle than it was on TrueHD where there was no doubt of a sync issue before 1.1.60.

I would say I have a slight sync issue on DTS-HD MA. DTS-X I am unsure and standard DTS I could not test yet. If somebody has a movie I can try that has standard DTS I can test that.

 

**Update**

This turned out to be finger trouble on my part - not having Auto Lipsync switched on - my AVR reports a 198ms video delay caused by the projector, so nothing to do with the Zidoo.

See here: http://forum.zidoo.tv/index.php?threads/dts-dts-hd-dts-x-lipsync.99127/#post-235344

Ok, I have a dog in this fight now

I was in the cinema last night watching a couple of things and decided to test DTS lipsync in there.

And bugger me, audio was about 3 frames in front of video for DTS-HD and DTS-X (about 120 ish milliseconds) !!!

I was sure that wasn’t there before – maybe it was introduced in later firmware, maybe not, I’m just not sure.
It was definitely not there on earlier boxes, so maybe I was mistaken with the UHD8000 as it’s not been in there for long.

Anyway, I definitely now see it in the cinema which makes no sense at all because I definitely don’t see it on my test rig and both are using same era Denons (a 7200 and 8500) and Vertex 2s.

So:

Z9X 8K > Vertex2 > Denon 7200 > Samsung flatscreen - no lipsync issue
UHD8000 > Vertex2 > Denon 8500 > JVC NZ800 projector - lipsync issue

And I found a workaround (kind of).

I found that if I set a global delay using arrow keys (see pics below) of about 125 - 150ms then DTS codecs are brought back in line and for some reason it doesn't seem to affect Dolby Codecs until you get above say 185ms, so they are in line too. More or less...

 

@Markswift2003 , I know what you mean it also seems like truehd stays in sync with that kind of delay but I don’t think it truly does. Also I think non-hd audio files will be clearly more out of sync with a delay.

There is something unstable about this sync issue and like I said for me it’s not an in your face sync issue like it was for truehd before 1.1.60. I would say I had the exact sync issue with the firmwares before 1.1.60 for DTS HD MA so it’s not new on my end.

You can add me as having sync issue on DTS HD MA with my hdmi chain I described in my earlier post. I probably have it on DTS X too but it was not clear enough on my two DTS X files that I tested to put that for me for now.

 

I tested using Spears & Musil lipsync patterns so you can see the delay at frame accuracy.

With 125ms set as a global delay, AC3, DTS, TrueHD and TrueHD Atmos were all in sync and DTS-HD MA, DTS-X was almost there.

I think maybe 150ms is a good compromise for real content.

 

Ok, it gets weirder...

Denons have a setting called "Auto Lipsync"

According to Denon, this "automatically adjusts the audio processing time to compensate for delays in audio/video timing from TV compatible with Auto Lip Sync".

Furthermore, they say "Automatic correction may not be performed depending on the specifications of your TV even when “Auto Lip Sync” is set to “On” "

It seems to depend on model where this feature is - you'd expect it in Audio Settings, but on my 7200 it's in Video/HDMI settings and on my 8500 it's in Audio settings.

I usually have this set to "Off" but I just tried turning it on in the cinema and it seems to fix everything!

So now with the following settings, I get perfect sync in AC3, TrueHD, TrueHD Atmos, DTS, DTS-HD MA, DTS-X:

Denon Auto Lipsync "On" (manual delay set to zero)
Zidoo Passthrough Compatibility Mode "On" (manual delay set to Zero)
Zidoo global delay set to Zero

Don't ask me how this works, but it does

On my test kit, which is a Denon 7200 > Samsung flatscreen, I have Denon AutoLipsync switched off and Zidoo Passthrough Compatibility Mode switched off and, as said previously, have no problems with lipsync with any formats.

 

I tried turning off auto lipsync on my Yamaha and it changed absolutely nothing before. I can try again on 1.1.60 but I always keep auto lipsync on which is the default on Yamaha AVRs.

I still don’t understand how that auto lipsynch function works without eArc sending TV video processing delay information back to the AVR. My TV receives no audio so I don’t know how the AVR adjusts without eArc being used unless HDMI protocol has a function for that.

 

Auto lipsync is an HDMI feature - introduced way back with HDMI 1.3 as far as I know.

It allows an AVR to query a display to find out how much delay it's introducing in the video signal and the AVR then delays the audio by that amount. Not all displays will support it though as it's an optional feature of HDMI.

So the interesting thing in my case (in the cinema) is that the delay must be introduced by the projector and the AVR is compensating for that and it has nothing to do with the Zidoo which is downstream, so out of the "lipsync loop".

What's odd is that Dolby audio is in sync with Auto Lipsync off but DTS audio isn't and I suspect this may be due to the TrueHD fix in the last firmware.

Quite possibly this DTS issue is a result of that.

Difficult to get your head around...