Hello folks, New owner of a Z9X, and finding my way around the device. I have a JVC RS500 projector. I'm pretty happy with the device with the exception of *long* HDMI sync times (up to 15 seconds... yuck). Anyhow, I'm trying to use the Z9X with the HDR mode "SDR.Rec.2020 Limited" (I'm thinking that's the best way to see UHD content on my machine), and it seems like there is an HDMI-resync whenever I start a video, and another resync after I stop a video. The "info" button on the remote tells me that, when I'm in the Zidoo UI, it's showing content in REC.709, and then when I play a movie, it's showing content in REC.2020, so I'm assuming that's the reason for the resync. Is there any way to just "force" the Zidoo UI to be output in REC.2020, so I can avoid my long HDMI sync times? I don't really care if the colors are off in the menus (I need to manually set the color space for my projector anyways, so something is always going to be off). Note, if I set my HDR mode to "SDR.Rec.709 Limited" I don't get the resyncs after starting/stopping video playback. Thanks! Tim
I went through your pain a few years ago! I've got a JVC X7000 which is essentially the same model as yours, only from the UK. So yes, a few years ago, because of the dreaded Gamma D, the best way to view HDR material on this projector was using SDR 2020 and after Panasonic put it on their UHD BluRay players, it was me that got Zidoo to add it to their players. However, as you've seen, the GUI is presented in Rec.709, so you'll always get a resync because SDR.2020 is only used for HDR material - Rec.709 goes out, correctly, at Rec.709. Because of this there's no way to set the GUI to 2020 and avoid the resyncs. The option "SDR.Rec.709 Limited" presents everything in Rec.709 hence no resyncs, but the colour conversion from 2020 t0 709 is done by the Realtek engine and it does it extemely poorly so it's not worth using - this is true of all Realtek players. There are two much better ways to view HDR (and SDR/DV) material from the Zidoo with your projector. One is to use the VS10 engine to output Dolby Vision and the other is to use the VS10 engine to output SDR. The first option involves tricking the Zidoo into thinking the display is LLDV capable but with BT.2020 primaries (with my custom EDID that's already loaded in the Zidoo). Then you load and apply a custom HDR gamma curve in the projector (instead of Gamma D) using Autocal and apply a BT.2020 colour profile. The Zidoo can then output LLDV in BT.2020 which is "decoded" with the custom gamma and BT.2020 colour profile. You can also use auto-iris in this mode which you could never do with Gamma D. The good news is that you can then convert EVERTHING to LLDV so you can set it up so that you will only ever get a resync with a frame rate change (obviously this is completely unavoidable in any device). If you're not familiar with using JVC Autocal to load gamma curves then the second option might be best. This involved tricking the Zidoo into thinking the display is SDR only and setting the HDR option to "Dolby Vision VS10 Engine (for all content)". Because the Zidoo now thinks the display is SDR, when the VS10 engine is invoked, it will output Rec.709 for all content and the results are excellent for SDR, HDR10(+) and Dolby Vision material. This requires loading a custom EDID into the zidoo like this one: https://mega.nz/file/dX4wgKAb#523dTeN-tmgPg99aF2uBND89boy_P6VBfnQOH4SMEPw Personally I use the LLDV option which definitely gives the best picture I've ever seen from the PJ with all content, SDR, HDR and DV. In case you want to try this, here's the gamma curve I use: https://mega.nz/file/QLh23AQJ#luwScsTSoMCuDoZR8yiMRcayNqHFyELS2zxMygbIbxs
Sorry for jumping into conversation, but you have mentioned that you are using some piece of hardware to switch hdmi ports or something like that, and I cannot remember the name of the device (for strange reason I think it is Vulcan, but I have been watching lots of Star Trek with kids lately). Can you please remind me what it is? and it is right there in your signature HDFury Vertex² LOL
Thanks Mark. I'll give this a shot! I played with this a little tonight, and I guess I'm feeling a little helpless. I've used the tool before many years ago to load the BT.2020 color profile, so I know I've gotten this to work before. I tried loading your curve, and a couple of Mani's curves using the tool (Custom 1, Custom 2, Custom 3). I struggled with them for a bit. The picture seemed pretty bright and washed out (I did set the color space to REC.2020). Things seemed to look a bit better when I did a 2.6 correction, but I'm assuming that wipes out the gamma points that are set? I remember seeing something above elevated blacks using the VS10 engine. Is that issue fixed in the retail firmware, or do I need to get on the beta firmware? Note, I've been successful getting MadVR working here with really good results. Just trying to get something that's 90% as good in a easy-to-use setup box. Thanks! Tim
Gamma 2.6 is standard Power Gamma which is linear and also will be very dark - the higher the number, the lower the output for a given input. Standard Power gamma should be set to 2.2. for normal SDR viewing. HDR uses PQ gamma (Perceptual Quantiser) which follows a curve, slowly coming out of black and then rising as it heads to white. By setting 1000 BT.2020 LLDV we're essentially telling the box to output an effective HDR10 signal in BT.2020 tone mapped to 1000nits but without the normally included HDR SEI message (sometimes refered to as an HDR flag even though it isn't a flag, it's a string). This is why the JVC is perfect for this because we loose the constraints of it's own HDR system (gamma D and no auto iris) and it's easy to set a custom gamma and manually use BT.2020. I don't know why you're getting a washed out image - that usually means that BT.2020 is being decoded as BT.709 but it depends what you mean by washed out - I take that to mean lack of colour. My curve is a very right curve (no need to use high lamp) - it follows PQ but I've set it to be as bright as possible without blooming. Manni's etc tend to be a lot dimmer although roughly following the same transfer function. The black issue only affected VS10 HDR and VS10 SDR output and only affected displays that can't switch between 0-255/16-235 HDMI levels - notably Samsungs and Philips so shouldn't affect your PJ. However, I would definitely update to the latest beta - regardless of naming, with this kind of device, any firmware is really always a beta - the development is continual, usually until well after the models have been superceded. Having used MadVR, I'd say this takes you more than 90% there with the added bonus of being able to watch Dolby Vision material natively. So as a check , here's the workflow: On the Zidoo: Basic settings that should be done regardless: Display/Color Settings/4K 50~60Hz: Priority YUV420 10BIT Display/Color Settings/4K 23~30Hz: Priority YUV444 10BIT Display/Color Settings/Non-4K: Priority YUV444 8BIT Display/Color Settings/HDMI Range: 16-235 Audio/HDMI Audio: RAW Audio/Downmix HD Audio output: OFF Then: Display/Custom EDID: switched <On> and "1. BT.2020 LLDV EDID" selected Display/HDR: Dolby Vision Low Latency (LLDV, YUV422, 12bit) Display/Resolution - 3840 x 2160p 23Hz Playback/Auto Frame Rate/Frame Rate Mode - Match Frame Rate Only (to further reduce resyncs) At this point, the Zidoo will be outputting BT.2020 LLDV and will only resync if content is not 23.976fps. One thing to bear in mind is that if you play 50/59/60Hz material, your HDMI chain must be extremely robust because LLDV is 12-bit 422 and at 4K60 this is the full 18Gbps (594MHz) signal. On the Projector create a Picture Mode in Custom 1-6 (rename to LLDV or HDR or something like that). Apply your BT.2020 colour profile and my LLDV gamma to this and you should be good to go...
Thanks Mark for the tips above. This helped a lot. Definitely user error on my part. My problem was twofold... for Display/HDR I had picked the wrong VS10 setting. I didn't scroll all the way down to the bottom. And then secondly, I needed to read the manual for my projector. It didn't matter if I uploaded your gamma profile to "Custom 1", but when I select "Custom 1", I also needed to change the "Correction" to "Import". Once I did that, things were good to go. I agree, your curve is definitely brighter than Manni's and I'm a fan. I've been watching the last 10 minutes of Matrix Reloaded... it has the super bright scene with the Architect (who interestingly enough blooms with the SDR.2020 setting) and has pretty dark scenes at the end when they are running away from the sentinel in "real life". I can't tell if the dark scene is *too* dark (need to do some comparisons tomorrow when I have more time), but overall, this looks fantastic! I've been collecting UHD discs for awhile but struggled to figure out the best way to play them. I think I finally have a solid solution now! Feels like this is a "must have" setup for folks with our generation of projector. Thanks for all of your help! Tim
Brilliant!! I'm really glad you've got it sorted and sorry that's my fault for forgetting about having to set to "Import" of the JVC - it's a long time since I set the JVC up to do this but it certainly breathes new life into these projectors and to be fair it also improves matters with the newer ones too - including the latest laser models - allowing full Dolby Vision support. SDR.2020 isn't bad but the Realtek tone mapping isn't a patch on VS10.
Your Dolby Vision comment made me realize.... I had ripped my Matrix movies 3+ years ago before MakeMKV supported Dolby Vision. I re-ripped them today, and yeah, DV looks pretty good! I had a chance to compare both DV and non-DV on the Zidoo to the BluRay rip on my Popcorn Hour A-500.... I had mentioned I thought the dark scenes were *too* dark, but no, I don't think so, they are pretty similar to the BluRay. It's all good. So I started trying to figure out how to avoid a re-sync and ended up with a pretty amazing DV content on my 6+ year old projector. Thanks Mark! Now if they could only fix the delayed audio on pause, I could get rid of my A-500 for BluRay content. Tim
