New firmware v2.0.5 version(beta) for ZIDOO X9S release

Thank you for confirming the stutter.

- You mentioned before that there may be frame drops with 59.970/59.940 also. Is this the case? Even if it's harder to see due to the higher frame rate, if we're going to try to get Zidoo to hopefully correct this, we might as well have them address all the problem frame rates so they all work correctly.

- Also, about the test file being okay - strange - why does the test file freeze up in my PC media players then? And you mention "The reason why you are seeing a difference between the motion bar test pattern and my clip is because of the difference in motion." - but as I said I tried a shorter motion bars test pattern that is only 2 minutes long (long enough to show the first 83-second frame drop), and it plays without the frame drop. I've watched it over and over again, and that shorter motion bars test just doesn't show the stutter issue like the longer test clip does. These two things make me wonder about the test file I have been using.

 

Theoretically speaking, it would stutter at 59.940 also because the refresh rate is 59.936 or 59.933 (can't remember exactly). At this refresh rate unless the stutter occurs at regular short intervals, it may not be "noticed" by the brain. There is the highly debated Penrose-Hameroff Orchestrated Objective Reduction (Orch-OR) theory that says that anything above "40 moments per second" may not attain full consciousness in the brain.

In the absence of a true reference clock, I don't think that you can achieve perfect pixel clock for all refresh rates/resolutions. There will always be some offset. In my opinion, there is only one thing that Zidoo/Realtek needs to fix: the offset for YCbCr 4:4:4 23.976Hz mode.

I didn't have any issue playing your test file on my PC. The motion that I talk about is the speed at which the bars move. Stutter can be noticed more easily with patterns that are moving at faster pace. You can make a longer clip out of your short test pattern easily with FFmpeg concatenate command.

 

Thanks, but this still doesn't completely explain why the short motion bars test pattern doesn't show the frame drop at 83 seconds, but the longer one that doesn't play well on my PC does.

Both have the same combination of slow and fast horizontal-scrolling bars. So why can I see the frame drop every time at 83 seconds with the longer test file, but never with the shorter file? They're both practically the same test, just slightly different bars. I should be able to see the frame drop on both files, since they are practically the same.

 

Do you have a link for this short motion bar test pattern? I can take a look at it. Talking about the longer test pattern, do you see the stutter in the bottom row or middle row?

 

I couldn't find an active link any longer, so I uploaded both the 23.976 and 24.000 shorter test files myself. They were created a few years ago by a user in AVS, so I hope he doesn't mind me uploading them here.

http://www111.zippyshare.com/v/EmGpGKn9/file.html

I saw stutters in the top and middle, especially the top row, due to the faster speed. I don't really focus on the bottom row since it's harder to spot the stutter anyways due to the slower speed.

 

@ursiel
i had test your running bar test pattern
when i set hdmi 1080p24hz 10bit and auto in color space, i see the stutter at 83second with a very focused eye on it upper row
but when i recorded it and play it in my pc i cannot see it


when i set it to 1080p24hz 4:4:4 12bit, i did not see it again or i missed it at 83second, maybe it appear in other timeline
i set it to 3840p60Hz 4:4:4 12bit, did not see it again

 

Thanks for giving them a try and confirming the stutter.

The 2nd and 3rd tests, in 12bit, would not occur at the 83 second mark due to the difference in timing wesk05 described. It odd because it should be the same frame rate, but that's the problem - both 10bit and 12bit put out the wrong frame rate in those modes, and 10bit is a different frame rate than 12bit. So the first stutter in12bit would occur later than 83 seconds. I didn't look deeply into the 12bit stutter timing because honestly I got weary from testing so many times, and it would be nice to think Ziddo did as much testing as some of us in here have done lately.

So basically, it makes sense that you saw the stutter in the first test at 83 seconds, but not the two 12bit tests. They will stutter in 12bit, I'm just not sure when the first stutter would take place, or what the timing is between the stutters in 12bit.

 

I also have a bit more information to share that some should find interesting. I'll pop back in here later and post more details.

 

When I use ZIDO 17.6 or Home Theater 2.0, the movies will crash and come back, but if using KODI everything OK.
This only occurred after upgrading from 2.0.5

 

@ursiel once you have the problem frame rates/resolutions identified can you make a new forum post and tag @mirror or one of the other zidoo guys? I have a feeling it’ll be more visible and get more traction rather than being buried deep on this thread.

 

After lots of testing and watching everything from music to images to DVDs to UHD clips and movies in both 1080p and UHD/HDR, I decided that this player just has way too many unacceptable bugs to be a player I can rely on currently. With my return period quickly approaching, I had to make a decision. I did not want to get stuck with this player with the firmware in the current shape it's in, yet I still feel this player could get all the big issues out of the way if Zidoo puts some effort into addressing them. That's, of course, assuming they care enough to bother. Quite frankly, I'm very disappointed to see this firmware have so many major issues this far along in the development. I would also like to see a lot more frequent updates. The last official "Stable" update (I use the term loosely) was months ago. That's unacceptable with a player with so many issues.

Here's what I decided to do. I set up a return with my x9s. I also bought the x10, which just arrived. I decided if I do keep a Zidoo, I would appreciate the better front display and the internal hard drive storage. I felt this would do two things: Even though it's obvious to me I didn't have a defective unit, and that it is in fact poor firmware causing these issues, I got enough doubters in here that having another unit showing the same bugs should quiet them down. At the same time, it would allow me another month to keep an eye on developments and hopefully try out a new firmware by then. If Zidoo doesn't bother putting an update out within the next few weeks, then I'll be convinced they just don't care, and this will also go back. If they get these issues straightened out, I'll be happy to keep it.

Having said all that, I did do a bit of testing with my new x10, which shipped with firmware v1.4.16. I haven't updated to 2.0.5 yet, since I wanted to see if I saw the frame drops on this version in this player. I only ran a few tests with the motion bars file - 2160p/1080p 444 10bit, and 2160p 422 10bit.

Using that motion bars file, I still saw the frame drops at the exact same time frames on v1.4.16 on the x10 as I saw with v2.0.5 on the x9s - at 52 seconds with 2160p 444 10bit, and 83 seconds at 2160p/1080p 422 10bit. I stopped there because that's enough to show me that this issue is ongoing, and dates back to at least 1.4.16 on the x10. I wouldn't be surprised if this frame dropping issue has been here all along and only recently has gotten attention.

Keep in mind that this is with that longer test file that I still have concerns about. I still question why that test file acts funny on my PC in Media Player Classic, both BE and HC versions. All the tests in that suite of motion bars (I have several in different frame rates) act the same in Media Player Classic. No other test files I have freezes Media Player Classic when I click along the navigation bar - this suggests to me that these particular files have something different about them. Usually when that happens in Media Payer Classic it means the file is somehow broken. Yet they do play and navigate in VLC, which tends to be more tolerant of broken files for me. I also question why I don't see these frame drops when using that shorter motion bars test.

So I will still be sticking around in here to follow the thread, since the x9s and x10 share virtually the same firmware, and obviously the same bugs too. But I will also be in the x10 section too. They need to take these frame drops, and other issues like DVD ISO/VIDEO_TS/REMUX playback (aspect ratio issues) seriously. They also need to keep in mind that these frame drops happen in 3D mode as well, so don't overlook the issue in 3D mode. We need more open communication with them. Let us know what bugs they are looking into. Give us an idea of when the next update will happen. As paying customers, we deserve this. Some of us in here are working hard at trying to make these players lives up to their promises.

 

I'll try to gather together the issues I have posted about in here and create separate threads for them. I'd also need to bring them to the x10 section since I own one of those now, as the same issues affect that unit too. I thought that making several separate threads would just end up getting overlooked or lost, and that since this was the current firmware thread, Zidoo would be following it and be reading my posts in here. That was my thinking. Whichever would make it more likely to get attention I'll be glad to do.

 

Another reason I question the test bar I have been using - you say the frame rate issue only affects YCbCr 444 10bit/12bit. But all of my 10bit tests in all color space modes showed those frame drops - 444, 422, 420, rgb, 1080p, 2160p. And I got those same frame drops even with deep color off.

And why does 2160p 444 and 420 have the first frame drop at 52 seconds (repeatable, even on my new x10), but all other color space modes were 83 seconds at 1080p and 2160p? Why is the frame drop timing different? I believe the 420 setting may actually be outputting 444 (?), so that would explain why those 2 are the same, but why is the timing different from other modes?

2160P - 10bit - 23.976fps

HDMI Mode: 2160p 60Hz
Deep Color Mode: 10bit
Color Space Mode: YCbCr 444, YCbCr 420

Frame Drops:
52 seconds
161 seconds
270 seconds
379 seconds
(109 seconds apart after 1st frame drop)



1080P - 10bit - 23.976fps - 2D/3D

HDMI Mode: 1080p 60Hz
Deep Color Mode: 10bit
Color Space Mode: YCbCr 444

Frame Drops:
81 seconds
249 seconds
417 seconds
585 seconds
(168 seconds apart after 1st frame drop)



2160P - 1080P - 10bit - 23.976fps - 2D/3D

HDMI Mode: 2160p/1080p 60Hz
Deep Color Mode: 10bit
Color Space Mode: YCbCr 422, RGB 444

Frame Drops:
83 seconds
254 seconds
425 seconds
596 seconds
(171 seconds apart after 1st frame drop)



2160P - 1080p - Deep Color OFF - 23.976fps - 2D/3D

HDMI Mode: 2160p/1080p 60Hz
Deep Color Mode: OFF
Color Space Mode: YCbCr 444, YCbCr 420, YCbCr 422, RGB 444

Frame Drops:
83 seconds
254 seconds
425 seconds
596 seconds
(171 seconds apart after 1st frame drop)

 

@ursiel
you`re nut man, testing a lot of that
i did 3test and it`s already made me dizzy
even i had seen the stutter but i also had very focused on that running bar
cannot detected it on mid row or lower row
maybe when i watch a movie i will not recognized or even nitice it either

hope the zidoo teams give a very concern on what have you done here
and give the best for all of us

maybe what you mean is ZDMC17.6
i bought this box not to using kodi or kodi fork for my movies
using firmware2.0.5 and HT2.0, didnot having any problem like you had
suggest, maybe you can do a factory reset

 

I wish I didn't have to do all that. But I went through this all before a few years ago with another round of media players I tried with the old 1186 chipset, which also had stutter. Back then I was new to it and I just wanted to know why all my movies were dropping frames constantly. I finally found a player that solved the issue (Mede8er). Now that I'm in the market for a UHD player, it's like I'm reliving the nightmare all over again, just because these companies can't take this stuff seriously.

All I want to do is buy a player and use it. Sadly, it's not that easy when the first time I try to use it I see DVDs don't display correctly and movies stutter.

 

I did have that clip. Here is a 12 min version of the same clip: https://mega.nz/#!0Uk3CIKQ!jukq9qqRODB99a83VBRLHyyRoTze7V1okpVFJavNIFQ

The motion bar speeds for this clip are 16ppf, 8ppf & 4ppf from top to bottom bars. Technically, you should be able to observe a stutter in the top most bar just like the other test pattern. I can't explain why you are not seeing it with this clip. I can't also explain why you have issues playing the other test pattern on your PC.

The detected refresh rate for 10-bit 1080p23.976 mode is 23.97511 and 12-bit 1080p23.976 is 23.97608. Theoretically, a stutter will occur only every 18.5 min for the 10-bit mode and 208 min for the 12-bit mode. The same applies to 2160p except for YCbCr 444 mode. I am not sure why are seeing stutter with all the modes.

 

Thanks for the extended clip.

I'll watch again with this clip and see if I can notice the stutter. It's so obvious with the other clip, and I can even see the stutter with regular films, so it's odd how I don't seem to see it with this clip.

It is very odd that I'm getting that regular stutter in all the other modes I listed, and there's definitely something not right about the timing discrepancy I'm seeing when compared to your calculations. In 1080p, I'm seeing the frame drops at the same frequent intervals as 2160p mode. You say that should only be happening in certain modes, and in 1080p mode it should be happening infrequently, yet that's not what I have observed. But that's only with the one file I still suspect might be iffy. As I said, I'll try that longer file you linked to above, because on the short version, I'm not seeing the frame drops, even though they are obvious on the other clip.

I wish we could here some kind of confirmation form Zidoo that they're looking into it. If they could confirm what is causing the frame drops in which modes, then we wouldn't have to be doing all this. We're supposed to be the customers - we don't work for Zidoo, but right now I feel more like a troubleshooter than a customer.

 

I wish we could here some kind of confirmation form Zidoo that they're looking into it. If they could confirm what is causing the frame drops in which modes, then we wouldn't have to be doing all this. We're supposed to be the customers - we don't work for Zidoo, but right now I feel more like a troubleshooter than a customer.

Thats the beauty of BETA software

we are the troubleshooters

Holiday they kindly posted about at top of the forum is now over ,so maybe well see some posts from ZIDOO now

 

I realize this is beta software and thank those who released it. I really like the HT2.0 app.

The picture is phenomenal on the zidoo. I had shelfed it for quite a long time actually. X9s.

I was previously using a shield and NUC for 3D. This met all my 4K needs as well as 3D for my OLED setup.

I realize now the Zidoo, has to come back into my life. The picture and simplicity is great.

I only have one issue outstanding so far.

All my videos regardless of subtitle toggle, begin with subtitles on.

Its almost like a permissions thing, not saving the settings in the zplayer app.

I am launching from Kodi 18 build that was published which launches Zplayer regardless when external player is activated. (using menu button) or (long press), it might be a bug, Its the 2/13 build.

Also video is not marked watched as well. ( that is an issue in the beta kodi build.

Subtitles do stay deactivated once I have toggled them, but I would prefer to disable them on startup if possible. This behavior is same through HT2.0 app.

Any ideas? I dont see any type of save as default like in Kodi once subtitles toggle is turned off.

Is anyone else having this issue ??

Other than that , no complaints, Like I said its far superior to the shield video quality.

This happens via .mkv, mvc, bd iso, uhd iso, bdmv, etc. It makes no exceptions, always starts with subtitles ON. ( Kodi does this by default but once you save settings , it stays off!) I would the same result on Zplayer.

Currently on 2.05, flashed direct from 1.2x

 

Scratch Bug: Went through apps, and cleared cache, Also cleared ZDMC data.

Kodi is working fine now and subtitles are off in the zidoo media player by default. Have tryed 5 different files.

"Marked as watched" is still not functioning perhaps an issue with playfactory setting in advancedsettings.xml

Good enough for right now. Subtitles on by default. was a drag. Not sure why that happened.