Recommended Settings and other useful stuff for RTD 1619DR Players

Discussion in 'HDD Media player(RTD 1619DR)' started by Markswift2003, Oct 21, 2020.

  1. Markswift2003

    Markswift2003 Well-Known Member SUPER Administrator Beta test group Contributor

    VS10 for SDR content is fine as long as VS10 is converting to DV - ie, it is a DV display. (this just has the background layer issue on cropped content - but this will not affect or even be noticed by most people).

    It is only when the display is SDR or HDR only where there is a problem with VS10. You will be fine with VS10 with a CX because it is a DV display.
     
  2. Thanks, I understand this a bit better now. I would imagine the background layer issue would be noticeable on an OLED though, as everything but total black in the black bars is noticeable to me in a dark room.
     
  3. Markswift2003

    Markswift2003 Well-Known Member SUPER Administrator Beta test group Contributor

    Yes, you can see it in a dark room but as I say, it's only applicable to cropped content (1920 x 800 or 3840 x 1600 for example) - so if I use cropped content in my cinema, although I have a multi-aspect screen with physical black masking, I can also add software masks using the projector settings to completely remove the problem.
     
  4. blenky

    blenky Well-Known Member

    TBH never noticed it. Then again people with ATV4K complain about raised blacks in DV - again I don't notice it. I just prefer putting SDR into DV on the Z9X. It's all personal preference.
     
  5. Markswift2003

    Markswift2003 Well-Known Member SUPER Administrator Beta test group Contributor

    I actually convert SDR and HDR into DV then play it on a non DV TV :D
     
  6. Oh ok, I thought bars meant all content thats not 16:9 aspect ratio, I can see how only a small minorities of movies would be affected then as almost everything I have is at 2160p or 1080p resolution!
     
  7. Markswift2003

    Markswift2003 Well-Known Member SUPER Administrator Beta test group Contributor

    Yes - if your content is 3840x2160 or 1920x1080 and the black bars are encoded on the frame, this issue will not affect you at all.
     
  8. vadergr

    vadergr Member

    Although Mark is definitely an HDMI genius ;), I am still puzzled about the settings I should use.

    Things should have been more simple/straightforward, and I believe it has to do with the excessive options appearing in the HDR settings menu.

    For example, I have an LG BX OLED 4K display capable of HDR10 and DV content.
    Which HDR option is the best so that all my streaming-type DV .mkv's and 4K.ISO's can be displayed in the best possible way (as close to the source as possible).
    Some appear to be either similar or undefined. For example "Dolby Vision VS10 engine for HDR" and "Dolby Vision VS10 engine".
    What is the difference between these two when:
    • playback of a streaming DV profile (4/5/8 for example) .mkv
    • playback of a DV 4K.ISO rip (profile 7)
    • playback of an HDR10 4K.ISO rip or .mkv
    Furthermore, which setting outputs the best 4K HDR->1080p SDR conversion when I watch via my 1080p projector?
    Auto, or "Dolby Vision VS10 engine for SDR"? Do we also get raised black levels with this VS10 setting outputting to SDR?

    Also, does any of this matter if we experience raised black levels when any VS10 processing is enabled? Do we consider it acceptable?
    I am not sure I do.

    Apologies in case I am missing something and thumbs up to Mark's astonishing, non-stop work.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2021
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  9. rozel

    rozel Well-Known Member

    Brilliant question and one which I was going to add to as things have changed much again since the various firmware changes - maybe Mark could add a comment or two regarding Samsung TV & HDfury Vertex2 owners please - I totally agrree with all your comments about Mark - he's the man!
     
  10. vadergr

    vadergr Member

    Instead of providing so many options, not familiar to the majority of owners, it would be easier (for the end user) to just select the type of the display.
    For example:

    1. 1080p
    2. 4K SDR
    3. 4K HDR10
    4. 4K HDR10/HDR10+/DV
    5. 4K HDR10/DV
    Perhaps another one for the Sony LLDV ones. In this way, we would let Zidoo "choose" the correct VS10 setting for our display.
     
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  11. OlivierQC

    OlivierQC Well-Known Member

    I have an old 77A9G which works only in LLDV and with the settings recommended by Mark, the image quality is excellent (to my taste)

    Yes we must realize that too much is like not enough for the average user but I'm very happy that Zidoo offers them and as Mark says and I agree with him, the ''AUTO'' mode is perfect in many situations.

    With my Sony A9G I use the following options:
    HDR = AUTO
    Dolby vision compatible = LLDV

    For the new Sony TV I don't know what is the right setting

    This is only my opinion but I think that with Mark's thread we have enough information to find the right setting without having to modify the options available with the Zidoo
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2021
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  12. vddan

    vddan Active Member

    +1 all auto.
    Custom Edid to output DV in HDR 10+ at home !!
     
  13. Markswift2003

    Markswift2003 Well-Known Member SUPER Administrator Beta test group Contributor

    I must admit the settings are getting a bit mad now, but it makes sense once you get your head around what the VS10 engine does.

    So the answer to your first question is easy - don't worry about any of the setting, just use "Auto" (this is true for most setups) so in that way all content outputs natively - SDR content outputs in SDR, HDR in HDR and DV in DV if you have a DV capable display.

    Where this gets really complicated and mind blowing is if you have an HDR or an SDR only display and play DV content in Auto:

    In the case of an HDR only display, DV profile 7 plays the base layer only in HDR10(+) using the Realtek engine but DV Profile 5 has to be converted to HDR10 using VS10 (since Profile 5 does not have a compatible base layer) so you get the raised black levels.

    In the case of an SDR only display, DV Profile 7 uses the HDR10(+) base layer which is then converted to SDR using the Realtek engine so you get bad colour conversion and DV Profile 5 is converted to SDR using VS10 for the same reason above and again, you get raised blacks. Of course HDR is converted to SDR using Realtek also.


    "Dolby Vision VS10 engine for HDR" is the same as "Auto" except that all HDR10(+) content is processed by VS10 (so with your DV display, HDR10(+) is converted to DV)

    "Dolby Vision VS10 engine" processes everything with the VS10 engine, so again, with a DV display, everything is output in DV

    The permutations are, as I say, mind blowing but it's just a case of getting your head around how and when VS10 works.

    For your 1080p projector if you chose "Dolby Vision VS10 engine for SDR" that would work in pretty much the opposite way you want - that would invoke the VS10 engine only for SDR content and you really want that left alone

    I'd say in that case, use "SDR Rec.709 Limited" and see how the colour looks (or try "VS10 for HDR and DV content" but you'll have to mess with the HDMI levels to get black level down).

    So don't apologise, it really is crazy complicated.

    If I get bored one day I might work out a matrix for all of this, but don't hold your breath ;)

    (In case anyone wonders about Profile 4 and 8 - Profile 4 has an SDR base layer and Profile 8 is a single layer that can either be compatible with SDR, HDR or HLG - so you can work it out using the same logic as above - not important though because very little exists in those profiles in the real world!)
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2021
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  14. Markswift2003

    Markswift2003 Well-Known Member SUPER Administrator Beta test group Contributor

    If you explain that I can probably write an EDID to do it ;)

    (although you can't "convert" DV to HDR10+)
     
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  15. Markswift2003

    Markswift2003 Well-Known Member SUPER Administrator Beta test group Contributor

    I need a sit down now...
     
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  16. vddan

    vddan Active Member

    Thank you, thank you but, I already use this one with happiness:
    'BT.2020 HDR10 +'
    On my installation it is perfect !! :);)
     
  17. Markswift2003

    Markswift2003 Well-Known Member SUPER Administrator Beta test group Contributor

    Excellent - sorry, I misunderstood :)
     
  18. vddan

    vddan Active Member

    Not bad ............ have a good day! :cool:
     
  19. Valary

    Valary New Member

    Hi Mark.

    I began to investigate the sound issues more deeply and actually found the bug someone described here before:
    The DTS playback does depend on the previous Dolby track. It should not, but it does. Maybe some settings do not initialize from scratch during switching between audio tracks. It happens not always but it happens and I can't describe it more precisely now than switch to DTS HD after AC3 soundtrack.

    As well I discovered that multichannel music does not playback properly. Actually, I could not achieve truly multichannel playback. Most of the DSD tracks plays as 2 channels. As well when I turn LPCM 5.1 soundtrack it actually plays only the front and center channels. The rear channels play as surround channels, not as back. When I play the same tracks using a laptop- it sounds a way much better.
    Hope it will be fixed in the upcoming firmware. I bought the Zidoo to avoid constantly hook up my laptop to TV))))
    It definitely helped me with the movies for now but far away to help with music for now
     
  20. vadergr

    vadergr Member

    You are a small video god among men :p

    I will not let you go so easily though.

    Some more questions and notes below:

    "just use "Auto" (this is true for most setups) so in that way all content outputs natively - SDR content outputs in SDR, HDR in HDR and DV in DV if you have a DV capable display" In case of a DV display, how will the following scenarios behave?
    1. Playback of a 4K.ISO file with DV (profile 7). Will it play as HDR10 (the one inside the disc) or output DV via VS10 engine? In case of the latter, are we getting raised black levels? Are we still going to get raised black levels if we select the LLDV option?
    2. In case this happens (VS10 DV with raised black levels), how can we force HDR10+ output so we can get a "normal/correct" image? Only via applying a new EDID?
    3. During playback of Profile 5 streaming type .mkv's, in the same setup (DV display), do we still get raised black levels?
    4. Again during playback of Profile 5 streaming type .mkv's but on an HDR10 only display, we get an HDR10 output but with raised black levels since it is processed by VS10 engine?
    This is a good reason for Zidoo to drop the insert EDID option and replace it with a TV setting selection like the following:


      • 1080p
      • 4K SDR
      • 4K HDR10
      • 4K HDR10/HDR10+/DV
      • 4K HDR10/DV
    It should work better and make things way less complicated.

    My purpose/goalis to have a single option to avoid raised black levels in all scenarios. And secondary to prefer the base HDR10 output/metadata over the VS10 engine processing during profile 7 4K.ISO playback (regardless of raised black levels, I find the source HDR10 image better)

     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2021
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