Hi all, just a curiosity. For background, when you set your HDR settings to VS10 Engine everything including the interface is now in Dolby Vision. It is expected that some colours in the interface will be different. We can also see this when playing SDR videos (which is being converted to DV), the PGS subtitles that has a colour other than white or gray being changed to some other colour i.e. yellow to greenish blue, another colour to pink. This is also expected. But when the HDR is set to Auto, all will be using the file's native metadata. With this setting, I'm expecting Zidoo to not use any processing to produce the HDR/DV. However, when I watched Alita this weekend, the subtitle for it unexpectedly display in greenish blue. This subtitle displays as yellow on my blu-ray player. To confirm, I used the custom EDID provided by @Markswift2003 to turn off DV on my LG C9, and now I get the correct yellow subtitles. My question is, why is the subtitle changing colour while playing using the file's DV metadata instead of VS10 Engine? This looks like some kind of processing being applied by VS10 Engine. Is it only processing the subtitle, or even the video itself? And why? PS: This happens both in standard DV and LLDV.
PGS subtitles have nothing to do with Dolby Vision and it's metadata. They're just muxed within a container as they are authored: 32 bit (3 x 8 bit color + 8 bit alpha channel) RGB losslessly encoded images (no text). Where, in case of HDR video, PGS is authored with darker greys. PGS can be muxed with any video (SD, HD, 4K, SDR, HDR(10) or DV). The VS10 engine however has a faulty PGS color handling. Period. Which still has to be solved. @mirror: please read this?
It's internal PGS subtitles that came with the disc. I know that, that's true, this issue is mentioned in the first paragraph in the first post, it is caused by the VS10 Engine as you mentioned. It is an issue and should be fixed so let's call this Issue 1 in this thread. I understand why it happened though, so it's no mystery which is why I say it's expected. This is not the concern of this thread. Issue 1 has allowed me to discover my issue that I'm trying to understand the reason for by starting this thread, let's call it Issue 2. Of course the PGS subtitle has nothing to do with Dolby Vision and it's metadata, which is why this is an issue. Issue 2 is actually more concerning for me, at least until a sensible explanation is offered or if I misunderstood on how Zidoo play native Dolby Vision files. My concern is not really the subtitle colour, but if the VS10 Engine do any further processing to the DV instead of using the native DV metadata untouched. When setting HDR to Auto, a Dolby Vision video should only use the native DV metadata in the file, hence no VS10 Engine processing is required. The logo displayed when playing the file is "Dolby Vision", not "VS10 Dolby Vision". However, playing Alita (native DV MEL) the subtitle colour is changed as well, as mentioned the subtitle has nothing to do with DV so this shouldn't happen. From Issue 1 we know this only happen when VS10 Engine is used, so why do we need VS10 Engine when palying a native DV file? If VS10 Engine is involved in the background when playing native DV file (even though no VS10 logo is displayed or mentioned in Info): Is the VS10 Engine doing further processing and do any changes to the file's DV metadata? If yes, then this is my concern, the player must only use file's DV metadata untouched. Or, Is the VS10 Engine only used to read and doesn't do any changes to the file's DV metadata? If yes, then this is fine. In this case we only need to fix Issue 1 (still don't understand why the VS10 Engine is processing the subtitle in a native DV file though, but that's not critical to me) So @mirror , which of the above bullet points that the VS10 Engine is doing with native DV files? If it's the second, then I'm happy. Just need your confirmation to clear my concern. Cheers.
Hi ,just checked subtitles for complete images of 2001, Angel has Fallen , Gemini man , Mortal Engines , and Mkv for Aquaman and the pgs subs all show as near white to me on my Panasonic Z1000 i tried Alita ,but it was an early mkv id done ,when we were trying things like removing subs to stop issues when using youscope ,before Zidoo made all that converting pointless All were correctly identifying as DV not vs10 on both TV and Z9X info screens Just checked Back to the Future Complete version ,since thats also done in DV /HDR10+ like Alita , and the pgs subs were whiter if anything compared to the ones above doesnt help at your end i guess but gives a comparison base line
Thanks for testings! That is useful. Those titles likely have white/grey original original subtitle colour, so it shouldn't change the colour with VS10 Engine but I have to test those titles in HDR10 mode to confirm. Issue 2 only happens when the original subtitle colour is other than white/grey, I've only noticed it with Alita so far which have yellow original subtitle colour. Yep, the info on both the TV and Z9X says DV, not Vs10 so that's why I wonder what's going on when the Alita subtitle colour change as if VS10 is running. The colour is not the issue for me though (although still need to be fixed), just how much (if any) VS10 Engine is involved with native DV content.
Just did a complete version of Alita ,since i couldnt test my older mkv since subs had been stripped Definitely a more blueish tinge to the pgs subs when on DV mode The thing is thou , the pgs subs when HDR10 + mode is set is the exact same blueish tinge , so , that would rule out any VS10 playback as you were suspecting TBH i think maybe thats just the colour for the subs since the movie is ,to me , set with more of a sepia tone to it ,maybe they went blueish to stand out more
Now we're getting somewhere, thanks I really appreciate it. That is good news, if VS10 Engine isn't doing something then I'm already happy. Seems like it does that when it's in dynamic HDR i.e. DV and HDR10+. I tested in static HDR10 the subtitle is in light yellow. PS: Tested A Quiet Place in DV, it has the same blueish subtitle so that's the second one.
I'm not sure why the subtitles change colour but whether you have HDR set to "Auto" or "..VS10 Engine" and view DV content, the stream is treated in exactly the same way. If Dolby Vision is being displayed, the VS10 engine is doing it regardless of HDR mode or content, and there is no "additional" processing with Dolby Vision content in Auto so of course subtitles are treated in the same way.
Thanks Mark, it has always been my understanding that there is no "additional" processing with DV content, mentioned that in my posts. It's just that when I come across this subtitle colour changing that made me wonder if there's anything else going on. Me and my curiosity lol.
Curiosity is a good thing. Cherish it. Newton and Einstein wouldn't have come far without being curious.
Old thread but new (and pleased) owner of Z10 Pro. I am curious as to why there is an option to have VS10 apply to native DV content if it doesn't process the image? I don't care for the VS10 for SDR but find it excellent for HDR content. Not sure if I should select HDR & DV, just HDR, or does it matter? I have an LG C8. Thanks much.
