Zidoo 1619 Black Level issues explained...

The VS10 engine makes quite a big difference to banding - on the 4K HDR versions of that test pattern you see minimal banding in blue using the Realtek engine which becomes virtually invisible using VS10.

 

But is it better or worse than the Z9S?

 

The banding in Realtek mode is basically the same on the Z9S and Z9X. The VS10 engine is where the Z9X offers significant improvements.

 

Changed settings looks better in 4K playback
But Blacks look crushed and it needs to look brighter [ bottom / top black bars look inky black . ]
Compared to standard 1080p version .

maybe more setting changes or get a 4K set

 

I think you know the answer....

 

Let's not get too hung up about banding in either box - it shows up if you throw the S+M Chroma Alignment patterns at it or individual quantized luma level patterns, but these are real torture tests - in real world use you'd never see it.

As far as the Realtek engine goes, the Z9X trumps the Z9S in 12-bit 4:2:2 - On the Z9S, 12-bit 4:2:2 has an 8-bit pipe and so showed overt chroma banding in real world content in 10-bit material. The Z9X does not do this and 12-bit 4:2:2 performs as well as 10-bit 4:4:4 with 10-bit content.

 

Hi Mark, the VS10 HDR fix by setting to 0-255 range is true for standard DV only, am I right?

If I use "Dolby Vision VS10 Engine for HDR" but using LLDV (by setting Priority LLDV), other than video background (not an issue for me as MakeMKV never crop the black bars), I am getting the HDR content correctly with 16-235 range?

I don't want to change to 0-255 if I will not get SDR content correctly, hence the first question above. But in this table, it seems there are issues with SDR Rec.709 Limited on 16-235?



I've asked this before but with this HDMI range talk I want to be sure.

As you probably see, I may not have fully understand all this even with your long write-up lol, sorry about that.

With "Dolby Vision VS10 Engine for HDR", all HDR10 videos I get the VS10 Dolby Vision logo at the top corner when starting, while my DV videos I've checked so far (not sure what profiles) I get a Dolby Vision logo (without VS10 mentioned). I'm not sure what you mean but looks like it's reading the DV data from the video.

 

No - The 0-255 setting removes the raised black floor in VS10 HDR and VS10 SDR for non DV displays. As far as VS10 LLDV goes, there isn't a black floor issue and that setting has no effect

I assume from what you say that you have an LLDV capable display, so in that case, yes, the levels are correct. Outputting in DV does not have the black floor issue, only the background layer, which as you say, will not affect you due to using uncropped video.

Don't apologise - the variables here are bonkers so it takes a bit of getting your head around!

So yes, with 0-255 set, the Realtek SDR (and HDR) engine outputs at the wrong levels as expected since it's really the wrong setting.

I probably should have been more clear about this, but that table shows the clipping etc when a 1000nit HDR test pattern is used, so in that case, yes, there are clipping errors (not to mention a very poor 709 > 2020 colour conversion)

If you use a standard SDR test pattern, the clipping levels in Realtek SDR mode are perfect at 16 & 235 (8-bit) - so Realtek native SDR is ok.

If it shows "VS10 Dolby Vision" that means it's converting either HDR or SDR to Dolby Vision. If it's a proper Dolby Vision double D logo, that means it's processing a Dolby Vision signal natively.

 

I understand now, thank you 3000. You’re a star, Mark!

 

Can SDR be converted to HDR using the VS10 HDR mode?

 

Yes, and very well too.

If you have an HDR display (not DV) and choose either "Dolby Vision VS10 Engine for SDR" or just "Dolby Vision VS10 Engine" then that converts SDR to HDR using VS10.

In the first case (VS10 for SDR), the VS10 engine only kicks in for SDR content and all other content is treated the same as "Auto". In the second case (VS10 Engine) then everything (DV included) is converted to HDR via VS10.

But, as stated earlier, because of the screwed levels you need to choose 0-255 and that makes "Dolby Vision VS10 Engine" the only viable option at the moment.

 

Thanks for that, Mark.
I changed to 0-255 as suggested and now VS10 engine is usable on my non DV HDR Samsung display.
It's no longer washed out with grey blacks.
Yay. Picture is 'A - OK'

 

Zidoo will be back from the New Year break today, so hopefully we can get this resolved quickly.

 

@Markswift2003:

Hi Mark. Any news from the Zidoo team yet on these level issues?

 

Nothing yet...

 

Hi,
Is the latest beta 6.1.10 solves this problem ?

 

Sorry, no.

 

Ok.
Do you know if Zidoo team is aware about this issue, and if they are in progress for the next (beta) firmware ?

 

I've been telling them since July last year.