Audio Panel internal connections and related "Audio Processing" settings

Discussion in 'ZIDOO X20 PRO' started by Nice Monkey, Jul 31, 2018.

  1. Nice Monkey

    Nice Monkey Well-Known Member Beta test group

    Went a different way myself finally and hooked up an External USB2 DAC (based on the same SABRE ES9038PRO) to my Z9S. If people are interested will make a Threat sharing my experiences. Works just fine and sounding great. I am using 2 Play Store music players APP's with it. This mainly to get SACD DSF/DFF DSD tracks playback which both (paid versions) do include and obviously for the essential USB2 output support.

    Both are also running nicely on Android media players (using a Pointer Mouse for control) this despite being clearly designed for Smart-Phones.
    - USB Audio Player Pro (FW 4.4.1) at € 7,- which also supports SACD ISO direct play.
    - ONKYO HF Player (FW 2.4.0) at € 9.50 or Free version (SQ playback only but yes including SACD DSF/DFF album tracks via PCM). No SACD ISO direct play but yes PCM ==> DoP DSD real-time conversion. Never seen this one before. I frankly like the sound of it, despite normally preferring pure/untouched playback.
    I really wonder if these APP's also work with X20PRO finding the Internal Audio-panel DAC (using internal USB they ought to do so).

    The remote control is next to volume controls used for SABRE ES9038PRO Digital Filter settings. These filters are used for PCM output only: My DAC's default to the fast roll-off linear phase filter. Changed it to fast roll-off minimum phase filter for minimal sound bandwidth impact (slightly less than the default).
    For DSD output a simple low-pass filter is used instead (47K, 50K, 60K or 70K) with my DAC's default set at 60K. I have seen expensive DAC's with a 47K default which seems fine to me and changed it to that value accordingly.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2019
  2. lov86calv

    lov86calv New Member

    Connection process setting is complicated if you don't have windows software download to control the remote.
     
  3. Nice Monkey

    Nice Monkey Well-Known Member Beta test group

    You are referencing to? Windows does nowhere play a role in using an External DAC via USB or using the build-in DAC Audio Panel with X20 Pro. The mentioned APP's where paid for and downloaded via the Google Play Store (the standard Android way).

    Any volunteer to test Onkyo HF Player (the free version) with X20 Pro (can't test myself)? Should find it as an USB device and potentially next support all PCM and DSD formats with it (after paying the fee). ;)

    USB Music Player Pro (most recent FW) was reported to be compatible with the X20 PRO Internal DAC. This for those looking to get DSD support added. It is a small extra fee in my view after paying for the X20 PRO.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2018
  4. ahuman

    ahuman Member

    Hii Nice monkey, i would love if you could share how to best hook up X20 pro with external DAC using external software such as USB audio pro or similar. Another thing, i tried to install usb audio pro app on X20 pro, but i found that the bit rate was upscaled to 48Kh (the file was 44.1Kh). Any way to output PCM to my amp like zidoo player does (similar bitrate as file)? much appreciated your information
     
  5. Nice Monkey

    Nice Monkey Well-Known Member Beta test group

    An External DAC should be hooked up via an USB2 Host A/B cable. See attachment.

    These APP's are made for Android Smart Phones and are not SPDIF or HDMI aware:
    - Without an USB DAC connected the default Android drivers will be used. On a media player these default drivers will be used for HDMI out and default to 48 kHz output for any PCM/DSD source format. They will all play but be restricted to 16-bit 48 kHz output always.
    - With an USB DAC detected the output will match the source format for both PCM and DSD. This just sounds great.
    - These APP's could potentially be enhanced to use special Android drivers for HQ PCM (potentially DSD too) as Zidoo Media Player 3.0 does via HDMI. Then an External DAC would not be needed if the connected AMP meets all audio DAC formats+quality as desired. Currently they don't support HDMI RAW audio output.

    My Onkyo TX-RZ720 integrated DAC is clearly inferior to my external USB SABRE ES9038PRO DAC for DSD. For PCM only this is more a doubt.

    Using X20 Pro which uses an internal USB wired connection to the DAC Audio Panel; the question is if these APP's also find and are able to use that internal USB => DAC connection? No need for an External USB DAC then anymore. I am curious to hear your findings there.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 16, 2018
  6. ahuman

    ahuman Member

    Hi Nice Monkey, thanks so much for the explanation, it is crystal to me now. Yes, i am curious to know that the app able to act like using external DAC for X20 pro DAC and share the file through hdmi or spdif. So far, i checked, still not possible perhaps as the app still not clearly detect its HQ DAC not like when i installed on Samsung Note8 that the app directly detect it HQ DAC.
    Any other app that able to act like zidoo player 3.0? the reason is just because Zidoo player not yet correctly scrapping my music, makes very difficult to use.
     
  7. Reelyator

    Reelyator Active Member

    Hi Guys!
    @the audiophylics in this forum: Are you using the SACD Iso Playback function of your x20/x20Pro? If you have found a way for importing your SACD Iso Database into the Zidoo Music Player, then please join the "SACD ISO Database for Music Player 3.0" Discussion in the "General - Guides and FAQ´s§ Section of this forum. Any input is welcome!

    Unfortunately the Zidoo support is not very helpfull in this topic.....
     
    gymnos likes this.
  8. ahuman

    ahuman Member

    hi Nicemonkey, currently i am trying connect using RCA to amp, but since the music player 3 still unable to scrap ,y music correctly, i am using zdmc to play music. my question is does zdmc play using sabree too when analog audio ON? thanks in advance your information
     
  9. Nice Monkey

    Nice Monkey Well-Known Member Beta test group

    I am not able to try that as my player is in another continent. Never use ZDMC myself, but frankly expect it to work too as it is merely a HW matter.
     
  10. ahuman

    ahuman Member

    Hi Nice Monkey, thanks for the information. Tonigh i tested using USB audio pro app and use analog audio out from X20 pro. From the app, it says "direct" when i selected internal HQ DAC. Was that mean that the App using Sabre dac instead android one? i recalled your earlier post that mention the app with new FW able to use X20 pro internal sabre DAC.
     
  11. Nice Monkey

    Nice Monkey Well-Known Member Beta test group

    Difficult to be sure, but looks like it. If it supports DSD output then it should be using the chip. One should also be able to hear the sound quality difference specifically using DSD.
     
  12. ahuman

    ahuman Member

    Hi Nice Monkey, i tried Bon Jovi SACD ISO file, it says "direct: 176.4 khz, File DSD 2.8Mhz 1 bit", is that mean something?
     
  13. Nice Monkey

    Nice Monkey Well-Known Member Beta test group

    Back home again.

    What I am missing with X20 PRO is an option to choose the analog low-pass filter for DSD output (47k, 50k, 60k or 70k). But as native DSD is not supported (yet) by Music Player 3.0 that would not be usable anyway. My DIY-kit allows this using the remote control included.

    @ahuman It says it is using Android HDMI output (=Direct) and is converting DSD to PCM 176.4 which definitely is not what you want, but far better than nothing. DSD is just great (I am totally convinced).

    It should say USB DAC not Direct when finding it via Internal USB too. Which settings are you using for USB Audio Player Pro? Android should not be set as the preference and USB must be enabled.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
  14. Nice Monkey

    Nice Monkey Well-Known Member Beta test group

    Looking at the pictures of the audio panel got convinced the audio panel is coupled with the SOC using I2S as the interface and not Internal USB as I don't see the components for USB. So APP's designed for External USB won't inter-work with it using their proprietary drivers.

    DC Power capacitor, PSU's section, DAC+Clock circuitry, XLR AMP left/right and RCA AMP sections are neatly marked. It is a nicely build board with looks like a quality design for AMP's and the audio panel secondary power. Power for it is derived from the main switched mode PSU for the SOC + HDD's. Can't judge the individual component quality used for this design (yet).

    The panels potential sound quality should be good. It all depends on the Audio APP's provided how functional it will become. Seen questions asked by Zidoo work seems to be in progress to make further steps there. This specifically for playing SACD originated audio files.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 20, 2019
  15. Nice Monkey

    Nice Monkey Well-Known Member Beta test group

    Now I am absolutely sure about I2S interfacing being the culprit for lack of native SACD/DSD support.
    Zidoo is solving it using the wellknown XMOS USB solution built into a new model Zidoo UHD 2000 4K topmodel player.

    I do expect Zidoo to use Music Player 3.0 directly with it.
    https://www.futeko.com/newforum/index.php?topic=3868.0
    Also alternative Music APP's should work just fine with this new player.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 29, 2019
  16. zid2019

    zid2019 Member

    Great news.So just someone tell me what can I do with my half ready X20Pro???? Ohh mybe Zidoo will replace to a the UHD2000 ??? Im afraid not!
     
  17. ahuman

    ahuman Member

    looking at poor our x20 pro sad story, people will stay away for probably "medium-rare" UHD2000..
     
  18. Nice Monkey

    Nice Monkey Well-Known Member Beta test group

    This is what I wrote about it today:
    Only if you really purchase/own direct studio master recordings in PCM formats above 24-bit 192 kHz and/or SACD in DSD format then you need the new UHD2000 model to reproduce these without down-scaling PCM or DSD conversion to PCM as the X20 Pro does. :oops:

    X20 Pro will under all other conditions produce the best sound as enabled by the Es9038 chip which should do just fine for many. I really can't recall if it was ever advertised to support native DSD? It for sure was advertised to play SACD/DSD which it should finally get to do flawless. Played with it more and I am pretty sure only DST compressed SACD ISO's still give problems. I think they really need to solve that asap. :p
    Personally always had my doubts about getting native DSD to work with the audio panel design. That's why I started asking questions about the actual design since its launch. Sometimes I got the impression they didn't know the design details themselves. Answer #4 e.g. put me on the wrong foot for a long time. :mad:

    @ahuman
    I feel the UHD2000 is not medium-rare but well-done. :)
    One could call X20 Pro medium-rare though.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2019
  19. zid2019

    zid2019 Member

    We can analize x20pro, how process it sacd files, but the fatc is highres audio playing not working. This is from zidoo x20pro description : "Zidoo Music Player 2.0 has new UI design.Support native SACD,DFF,DSD,APE,FLAC,WAV and etc lossless audio format." This words is a misleading of customers., because music player 2.0 is not working with sacd files.
    X20 pro is a year old construction...and the problems not solved... and now they release a brand new model. I dont think they will put more development into x20pro.
     
  20. Nice Monkey

    Nice Monkey Well-Known Member Beta test group

    Work on Music Player 3.0 will go on as that is also needed for the new model. In fact the audio chip is the same and just the interface between SOC and that chip has changed with the new model. For the APP that is mostly hidden it is more a matter of drivers where the differences are.

    The problem with SACD ISO playback seems to be DST decompression and also for the new player that needs to be done correctly. So i am a lot more optimistic there.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2019

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